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Wallstein

Anybody ever used these techniques?

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Wow, those Slovaks are wild. That thing in "Slika 4" looks like a fire extinguisher. Looks complicated; not sure why you couln't use a v-thread instead of the first set-up.

 

No, I have never used anything like this.

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Looks complicated; not sure why you couln't use a v-thread instead of the first set-up.

Exactly. This all looks like some sort of Rube Goldberg contraption in order to retrieve your gear. I'm with mwalker here, why wouldn't you just leave some slingage instead of having your crap fall on top of your head when you pull the rope?

 

The first one is especially beautiful - screw unscrews itself when you pull the rap rope. Priceless! :crazy:

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slika 3 looks like the only one that might work and even if it does, you got 2 sharp axes flying at you when you pull.

 

slika 4 looks like a good way to have to go back up and reset the thing too many times. I bet the red line would fall off the bottle very often

 

no, I have never used anything like this either.

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I have never seen this, but I assume that the angle must be fairly low when using any of them so that the axes would not fly at you? Then again, a huge overhang might work as well.

 

Sketchy for sure...

 

 

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I've used the retrievable ice screw before. It's best used where the angle goes from flat to steep on the rappel (say at the edge of a crevasse or waterfall pitch), compared to a uniform slope angle. I find it fast to set up and plenty strong if using a 22cm screw.

 

Just loop your rope over the top of the screw (like it's doubled around a tree). Rap. Pull rope.

 

an image of it in use:

IMG_4216.JPG

In this case, the cord was extended with a sling for a little more length. I've also set it up by attaching the cord to the rope with a prussik, thus eliminating the knot and carabiner.

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why wouldn't you just leave some slingage instead of having your crap fall on top of your head when you pull the rope?

 

My guess is these are useful for extreme circumstances. Say rapping a 5000ft face and only having 12 slings. If you left a sling at every anchor you sure wouldn't make it very far before you ran out.

 

These ideas might be fairly crazy but I could see having them real deep in my bag of tricks.

 

If I was near some ice right now I'd like to go try out the ice screw trick.

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exactly.

 

Let's not forget the cord-less V-thread trick for smaller diameter ropes. another good option for being low on cordage or slings.

 

or the pillar thread (sling was used as our anchor before the rap):

 

IMG_22491.JPG

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My concern with rapping off a double rope when using one side to pull gear is the (admittedly small) potential for one half of the rope to move through the ATC at a faster rate. I've never experienced this (at least not that I was aware of, but if there were contaminants (dirt, ice, etc.) on one side and not the other I would be concerned that I might be pulling down the knot side and slowly beginning the process of retrieving the anchor while still rapping.

 

Admittedly this is pretty far-fetched for a single rope that has been doubled, but it becomes much more likely if rapping off two ropes of unequal diameter tied together. This is not what has been shown in the diagrams, but it is common practice for some (from what I've read in other posts). I can see how one might extrapolate the above ideas to the latter instance, which would be a mistake.

 

The potential for this goes away completely, of course, if you rap off a single rope tied to a pull cord (not rapping off the pull cord as well).

 

 

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I always thought JN's rope retrieval with a RUBBER BAND sounded a little nutty and brilliant at the same time...

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I decided not to put those tricks in my book, but maybe I will for the 2nd edition. I figured pulling ice axes down on your head seemed way risk...plus what if it didn't work? Then you are fucked. Why not bury a deadman..or better yet- downclimb?

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Now I want to see one where a multi-piece rock anchor with cams is hitched up so the triggers are pulled when you pull the rope so the anchor comes down with the rope. LOL!

 

These may sound and look crazy, but I like the idea of inventing and testing solutions for extreme situations BEFORE you are in those situations.

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I decided not to put those tricks in my book, but maybe I will for the 2nd edition. I figured pulling ice axes down on your head seemed way risk...plus what if it didn't work? Then you are fucked. Why not bury a deadman..or better yet- downclimb?

 

or use a bollard.

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I remember seeing a modified ice screw of Paul Claus' used in a similar way to that first image. This one had a built in spool of webbing that you could clip to the knot in the rope. I recall him saying that they worked sometimes, but were unreliable.

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I've seen slika 3 set up in practice and it seems to work well and makes sense.

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I toyed with number 1 a few times to test it. It scared the shit out of me, and didn't appear so reliable, so I filed it away in the "if no other conceivable option exists" category.

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