The "New" Mountaineers?

[Layback]

Wayne was just granted "full equivalency" and won't be taking any silly courses. It's an honor to have you Wayne. Thanks for helping out.

 

If anyone else is interested in equivalency and seeing what's new I'd be happy to help with that. Just shoot me a pm.

[Tom_Sjolseth]

Wayne was just granted "full equivalency"..

 

Ya think??!

[Layback]

So when are you joining bro? You climb with a bunch of us so you might as well get yourself a smurf suit and join us.

 

P.S. Wayne's equivalency was the click of a button and I think we could do the same for you.

[builder206]

rad

 

“An unwritten Seattle Climbing position on mountaineering boots has been changed. Rock shoes are now allowed on Basic & Intermediate Climbs by default unless the climb leader specifies differently in the trip leader notes. Boots are encouraged on Basic Rock Climbs.”

 

FWIW, students wearing rock shoes were OK with Everett leaders. The boots requirement was a Seattle thing.

[selkirk]

The boots requirement was never really a requirement, it was always up to the climb leaders. I wore rock shoes on my first Basic rock climb 8 years ago and no body batted an eye. That said, rock shoes are probably overkill for most basic climbs. Sticky rubber approach shoes are usually more pleasant on the approach (unless it's early season) and do just fine on the climbing bits.

[CascadeClimber]

"We're different now and we have a dry-tool wall almost, so you should join." isn't very compelling.

 

Climbers aren't typically joiners, in my experience, so you have to offer something pretty attractive to encourage herd behavior from people who tend to travel in groups of one to three.

 

For my part, I would have liked to see the club take much more aggressive, outspoken roles on policy issues that affect our hobby. The State Park fees, the Northwest Forest Pass/Fee Demo, the recent climbing fee increase at Rainier, the general morass of red tape and permits required for St. Helens and Adams, and the annual uproar over rescue costs are a few examples of situations that the club could have strongly and publicly advocated for us, but didn't.

[G-spotter]

I can guarantee you that wouldn't be the case with Wayne. Wayne has a few friends on the committee and although I don't know Wayne, I'd raise hell if he was somehow not allowed to pursue this. I hope it's okay to speak for the others but I know that Jim, Jessica, Geoff and I would have your back (among others).

 

Wayne was just granted "full equivalency" and won't be taking any silly courses. It's an honor to have you Wayne. Thanks for helping out.

 

If anyone else is interested in equivalency and seeing what's new I'd be happy to help with that. Just shoot me a pm.

 

So if I read these two posts right, you are saying Wayne was granted full equivalency because you support him, not because of his skill? I'm not sure that's the message I would want to hear if I wanted to join the Mounties and was a skilled but unknown climber.

[eldiente]

If we are talking climbing clubs... I would LOVE to see a climbing club in the States that offers huts and hostel styled accommodations at popular climbing destinations. Sort of what they do in the boating world with Yacht clubs, once you become a member at a local club you cheap/free access to other Yacht clubs. In the PNW there could be clubs near Smith, Index, L-worth etc. You'd have to pay annual fee to be a member to your local club and donate some time up keeping the local club house, but when you travel you could stay at other clubs free of charge. Fantasy for sure but I would pay for this sort of thing.

 

 

 

[selkirk]

hmmmmmm, one would assume that Layback and company are in support of Wayne because he skilled not in spite of it

 

If you're skilled and known to at least a few folks on the climbing committee, then equivalency is pretty much a rubber stamp.

 

If you're skilled and not known to the climbing committee, then you have to let the climbing committee get to know you (likely through a few climbs, or at the basic level participate in a 1 weekend review) to validate that you have the experience you claim before they grant you equivalency.

 

"Skilled and Unknown" is impossible do distinguish from "Unskilled and Unknown but wearing dead bird".

 

 

[selkirk]

As for those who would like to see the club do more things (more advocacy, more huts/hostels) feel free to join, advocate, and volunteer. We can always use more motivated people with vision

 

Be the change you wish to see in others and all that jazz.

[num1mc]

For my part, I would have liked to see the club take much more aggressive, outspoken roles on policy issues that affect our hobby. The State Park fees, the Northwest Forest Pass/Fee Demo, the recent climbing fee increase at Rainier, the general morass of red tape and permits required for St. Helens and Adams, and the annual uproar over rescue costs are a few examples of situations that the club could have strongly and publicly advocated for us, but didn't.

 

Bla bla bla

 

These are minor points, of interest to only a few. While you were OCD'ing about this tripe, the Mountaineers Climbing Committee was hard at work lobbying the AAC and the UIAA for world-wide standards regarding rope coiling. From this ground breaking work, one will soon be able to receive full club sanctioned certification as a rope coiler. Experienced climbers without certification may apply for special "Advanced Rope Coiling Equivalency" which may be granted after said climber attends a three hour rope coiling lecture, and passes a written test.

[CascadeClimber]

As for those who would like to see the club do more things (more advocacy, more huts/hostels) feel free to join, advocate, and volunteer. We can always use more motivated people with vision

 

Be the change you wish to see in others and all that jazz.

 

That doesn't really work, as many of us did join and advocate years ago to deaf, stubborn ears. It's the club's turn to show us that it's an advocate for us. Fool me (and nearly kill me) once...

 

FYI, there was a long thread on this subject in 2002, 5-6 years after my dust-up with the club. At that time Steve Firebaugh said many of the same same things: We've changed, we're safe now, we want your input, we will advocate, the board has a new outlook, etc. So some of us that are now rolling our eyes are doing so because we've heard this before.

[num1mc]

For my part, I would have liked to see the club take much more aggressive, outspoken roles on policy issues that affect our hobby. The State Park fees, the Northwest Forest Pass/Fee Demo, the recent climbing fee increase at Rainier, the general morass of red tape and permits required for St. Helens and Adams, and the annual uproar over rescue costs are a few examples of situations that the club could have strongly and publicly advocated for us, but didn't.

 

I was just joking. I know that the Mountaineers have been, and continue to be very involved in conservation and recreation. They have voiced concern, taken stances and been involved in all the topics you have listed.

 

The Mountaineers are not just a climbing club, and some issues may bring about division in the club. The stances of the conservation committee may at times be at odds with the wishes of climbers, and by extension, the climbing committee. This was not always true. Climbers led much of effort to create the NCNP. But the trend for climbing to be more akin to say mountain biking than backpacking has widened some of the gulfs between climbers and strict conservationists. This is easily demonstrated by the constant debate about bolting, fixed draws, tree cutting, chalk, fixed slack lines and stashed pads on this and other boards.

[Layback]

I can guarantee you that wouldn't be the case with Wayne. Wayne has a few friends on the committee and although I don't know Wayne, I'd raise hell if he was somehow not allowed to pursue this. I hope it's okay to speak for the others but I know that Jim, Jessica, Geoff and I would have your back (among others).

 

Wayne was just granted "full equivalency" and won't be taking any silly courses. It's an honor to have you Wayne. Thanks for helping out.

 

If anyone else is interested in equivalency and seeing what's new I'd be happy to help with that. Just shoot me a pm.

 

So if I read these two posts right, you are saying Wayne was granted full equivalency because you support him, not because of his skill? I'm not sure that's the message I would want to hear if I wanted to join the Mounties and was a skilled but unknown climber.

 

I was once a skilled and unknown climber and had to endure a shit storm of classes just to be able to do something I was already capable of so I understand what someone like that might have to go through. I am clearly not at Wayne's level but I can assure you that the intermediate class, which I had to take because I didn't know anyone, was a complete waste of my time. I was granted basic equivalency after some second year intermediate noob got to push me around at a FT in the pouring rain for 8 hours talking about "The Mountaineers Way".

 

When my climb leader application went through a ridiculous amount of nonsense three years ago because of my outspokenness in the club I vowed to change equivalency and provide an easier path for others. I rewrote the equivalency program, began offering it 6 times a year instead of 2, and have gotten more people through equivalency in the past 3 years than in the previous 10 years combined.

 

And for the record, since we're questioning my integrity and willingness to help anyone, I'm the one that just changed the ridiculous shoe policy. And I've just started. More people in the fight with outside blood to change club culture would be much appreciated. Like I said, just send me a PM.

[num1mc]

FYI, there was a long thread on this subject in 2002, 5-6 years after my dust-up with the club. At that time Steve Firebaugh said many of the same same things: We've changed, we're safe now, we want your input, we will advocate, the board has a new outlook, etc. So some of us that are now rolling our eyes are doing so because we've heard this before.

 

For those who need to keep up on such things

 

http://cascadeclimbers.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/16333/1

[genepires]

haters gonna hate and it is fun to bash the mounties. BUT.....

 

good for ya Layback. good that someone changes the lame parts of the mounties. If there was more like you, then the young-uns might come over.

[num1mc]

haters gonna hate and it is fun to bash the mounties

 

Not like BITD

 

Seattle "FUCKIN" Mountaineers. I hate those fuckin bastards. One they go out in huge groups to teach climbing occupy camping sites and parking not to mention a few good climbing areas. Last year a bud of mine was down from Alaska we were in Icicle looking for a camp site. They had a few tents here and there with plenty of space to share a site. Did the fuckers offer to share NO!!! Not one fucking offer. Mountain routes(and this was in the 70's to)are over run with their class climbs and regular outings. Do they practice low impact? Do they care? Are they a problem? I hate the Seattle Mountaineers!I hate the Seattle Mountaineers!I hate the Seattle Mountaineers!I hate the Seattle Mountaineers!I hate the Seattle Mountaineers!I hate the Seattle Mountaineers!I hate the Seattle Mountaineers!I hate the Seattle Mountaineers!I hate the Seattle Mountaineers!I hate the Seattle Mountaineers!

[stevetimetravlr]

Good effort Layback! Getting it done in more ways then one! Im sure allot of people appreciate your efforts.

[Lowell_Skoog]

My experience with the Mountaineers is fairly minimal. The only thing I've really been involved with is the history committee. But in my experience you won't get the Mountaineers (or any volunteer organization) to do something by asking them to do it, or even by TELLING them to do it. You get it done by volunteering, becoming the champion for the cause you care about, and DOING IT YOURSELF. Once you get things moving, being associated with a larger organization helps tackle bigger projects.

[Raindawg]

Hey Groovy Guys, Groovy Gals!

 

Don't be dissin' now on the Mountaineers, 'cuz they livin' in the future! Check it out! If you gots it inya to be a crag-anarchist and defile your local stones witha metallic trails any which way ya please so ya's can get's up it (without bangin' your noggin), or at least support the movement in that there direction, it seems like the Tacoma Mountaineers gotcha covered RIGHT CHEER! "Prospective intermediate climbing students are especially encouraged to take the course.." Yee ha!

 

http://www.tacomamountaineers.org/activities/sport_climbing.cfm

 

P.S. Shame on ya! Y'all ain't gotta clue!

Clip 'n Go!!!

[Julian]

How did this thread manage to get dawged? Oh, right, "sport climbing".

[JasonG]

Do you have any other tunes, Dawg? I think I've heard this one before.....

[Raindawg]

Do you have any other tunes, Dawg? I think I've heard this one before.....

 

Good for you!! It's a reasonable tune and I like it. Scroll on by, know it all!

 

[KaskadskyjKozak]

Do you have any other tunes, Dawg? I think I've heard this one before.....

 

Good for you!! It's a reasonable tune and I like it. Scroll on by, know it all!

 

you suck. grow up.

[Raindawg]

Do you have any other tunes, Dawg? I think I've heard this one before.....

 

Good for you!! It's a reasonable tune and I like it. Scroll on by, know it all!

 

you suck. grow up.

 

Move on, weak-one-with-a-vulgar-colloquial-vocabulary (i.e. "you suck"...really now!). Grow up? Anyone with half an environmental conscience will understand my perspective. Obviously you don't. The Mountaineers should become more introspective before they start offering courses in one of the most "leave a trace" outdoors pursuit there is. By the way, it's a well known fact that you personally don't like me....so your knee-jerk response added less than nothing.