Fabrics for Custom Packs

[yasso1am]

tl:dr - looking for opinion on following fabrics for packs:

 

500d Cordura w/ Dyneema Ripstop/Gridstop

 

1000d Cordura

 

XPAC Ripstop Nylon

 

VX21/42/50 series fabrics

 

The Full Story: I am working on building a custom alpine pack for "extended" trips in the cascades and I am having difficulty choosing the fabric for the main portion of the pack. I will be using this pack mostly for trips 5-6 days (65 liters) and it will be used as a guiding pack. Durability is by far the most important, but seeing as I will be carrying extra group gear (large first aid kit, etc.) light weight would be nice. Also guiding will be on anything from basic snow and ice to alpine rock and cragging.

 

Here is what I know about the materials.

 

500d Cordura with Dyneema gridstop: very abrasion resistant, tear resistant, puncture resitant, water resistant, moderate weight

 

1000d Cordura: Everything above + more, including weight

 

XPAC Ripstop Nylon: Don't know much here, appears to be similar to the material below.

 

VX21/42/50 Series: Amazing tear and burst resistance, however not that great on abrasion. The lightest of the four fabrics.

 

Again I am looking to get the most life out of this pack as possible, while keeping weight in mind. If you have other fabric suggestions I am open to them, but please do not suggest Non-Woven Dyneema or something like that. As I said I will be using this for guiding, that should tell you something about my financial situation.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

[genepires]

why not just prodeal a couple of good packs? I think your durability needs are a bit excessive. I guided for 8 years and never had to retire a pack.

[crackers]

XPac?

 

VX21 is 210d cordura in a X Pack laminate.

vx42 is a 420d cordura in a x pack laminate.

vx51 is a 500 x 1000d cordura in an x pack laminate.

 

x pack is a trademark of dimension polyant.

 

1000d and 500d corduras come in many types with many coatings. some are more abrasion resistant and some are less. some have good coatings and are incredibly water-resistant, some fabrics have terrible coatings that fall apart.

 

no offense, but I suspect that you'd have a much more cost effective solution just pro dealing a backpack. treat it reasonable well and learn to love seam grip. good luck.

[yasso1am]

I am not going to pro deal a pack because I'm going with a Cold Cold World pack and they don't offer pro deal.

 

Yes I know I could probably pro deal 2.5 packs for the same price I am going to pay for the CCW one, but I like Randy's packs and I believe in supporting the little guy. (not meant to start a flame about little guy vs. big guy and all that crap).

 

So because I'm spending a little more money for a custom pack, I figured I would pick the most appropriate pack. I fully expect this to last me many, many seasons.

 

Thanks for your input.

[NoahT]

You should get CCW's opinion, if they'll work with you like that. Seems like they'd be the best resource for all the technical stuff.

 

Or get crackers to make you one. I'm sure he'd set you up with exactly what you need...and he's the quintesential "little guy."

 

Good luck. --N

 

 

[kurthicks]

yea, yasso. get crackers to make you one. they're dope. I've used them exclusively for guiding for the last 4 years.

 

cilogear.com

[rob]

+1 on cilogear. Crackers' packs are the shizzy.

[yasso1am]

Kurt, I was going to say, "shouldn't you be in the field?" but I figured you would respond, "shouldn't you be handling registrations!?"

 

Anyway, Randy over at CCW has been super helpful and has given me all the tech specs on the fabrics. He certainly has first hand knowledge, I guess I was just looking for more input from other users on their experience with the fabrics.

 

Cilogear makes some wicked looking/featured packs, but I haven't used one yet. I guess I was sticking with CCW because I bought one of their packs on a fluke and ending up loving it. Tough choice.

 

I'm assuming crackers works for/is Cilogear then?

[kurthicks]

he is cilogear. and busy right now with the OR show. pretty cool of him to take the time to write on such a silly forum as this!

[YocumRidge]

learn to love seam grip. good luck.

With no Toluene added, Graham?

[superbum]

I just bought a CCW pack (Custom Chernobyl). It's ferkin awesome. I opted for the 500d spectra grid. It weighs EXACTLY what the site says. The Spectra grid weigh a LITTLE more than the straight up 500d, but I cut off some daisies and things so the weight ended up in the wash.

 

I hardly ever use the lid, so I almost had him make the lid using the 210d spectra grid fabric...and I wish that I had, but oh well. woulda saved weight comparable to a carabiner. significant, but not. better just to leave it behind abnyway.

 

My next pack will be a 210d spectra grid CCW Valdez, fully stripped. SO psyched on CCW.

 

As far as the 500d s.g. fabric...well, it's firts big day out, I ripped it! hahahah! but guess what? That day was an 8 mile approach through 4th and 5th class terrain in the Grand Canyon, hauling packs up funky slabs and through rotten chimneys. Did I mention that I had 65 lbs in that thing? Remember, if you are out in the Canyon for 4 days, you better have 4 gallons of water on you...

 

How did it carry? Well, let's just say that w/o a stay, it hurt, but so does carrying 65lbs WITH a stay, lov=bor day weekend in the Canyon.

 

500d spectra grid is the PERFECT belen of durability/weight and price. 210 tips the scale towards weight at the expense of (duh) durability and price.

 

I also own a Cilogear V4 45L worksack. It's on sale at the consignment shop. Sorry Graham. It's not you, it's me. really! Size lrg DOES NOT fit my 19.5 in torso (too big) and the dee clip BS is way to cosmic for me. I was sold on paper, but I like to think about the climbing, not my pack. also, both cinch grommets have ripped out and the sternum strap buckle broke. I've also broken two other buckles, one by slamming in car door, and one by stepping on it (it was cold out.)

 

500d rules.

[superbum]

drinking=typos.

[layton]

hey crackers,

 

can you give us the low down on the unwoven dyneema you use, vs the material brooks range uses in their rocket tent, vs the "ultra" fabric (cuben fiber) that Terra Nova and Zpacks use?

[zeroforhire]

+1 to laytons question. All the UL guys love cuben, can you educate us a bit?

 

Both ccw and cilo make great packs. Cilo has always been great for me.

[yasso1am]

Let's be honest here, I'm going to end up with both a CCW and Cilogear pack at some point. On paper they are both fantastic packs, and in the field both have been tested and excel at what they do. I guess I'll just have to take the time (and money) to find out which one does more for me.

 

I think I'll probably go with the 500d w/ spectra grid for the CCW pack, and then when I get a Cilo gear I will let them pick the fabrics. Crackers seems to put a ton of different materials on each pack (a combination of all the fabrics above) so I'm assuming he has an idea (understatement) of where each fabric is best suited.

[xhen]

Does Feathered Friends still stock a few Cilo packs?

[Raoul Duke]

Does Feathered Friends still stock a few Cilo packs?

 

Marmot Mountain Works in Bellevue has Worksacks in 3 different sizes...

[yasso1am]

Does Feathered Friends still stock a few Cilo packs?

 

Second ascent also usually has some in stock.

[Figger_Eight]

FF has some in stock fo' sho'

[xhen]

+3 for helpfulness. Thanks guys. I'm on the Eastside, so Marmot is closer, but I've been meaning to swing into Second Ascent anyway.

 

I've been wanting to try some and fiddle a bit. My brother has one and swears by it.

[markwebster]

I have the black diamond touchstone haulbag. It's heavy, but will last forever. If you were sewing one, or having one sewn, you can buy that fabric at Seattle fabrics, and put it just on the bottom 6 inches, where most of the wear happens. Old Millet packs from the seventies were built that way with leather bottoms.

[crackers]

I am not going to pro deal a pack because I'm going with a Cold Cold World pack and they don't offer pro deal.

So because I'm spending a little more money for a custom pack, I figured I would pick the most appropriate pack. I fully expect this to last me many, many seasons.

 

Get what Randy recommends to you. A) It will make his life a bit easier and B) he knows what materials fit his style.

 

Randy is a good guy and makes solid packs. You won't go wrong.

[crackers]

FF, Marmot & Second Ascent should all have a bunch of CiloGear packs in stock.

[crackers]

hey crackers,

 

can you give us the low down on the unwoven dyneema you use, vs the material brooks range uses in their rocket tent, vs the "ultra" fabric (cuben fiber) that Terra Nova and Zpacks use?

 

No. I don't have the time for your silly questions.

 

Just Kidding Layton.

 

The low down is really frigging long, but the super short version is that when we started selling the NWD packs after three.five years of testing them, the manufacturer of the material had just gone through an acquisition/spin off/reorganization and had absolutely no frigging clue what a) their name was b) what the name of the material was or c) what day of the week it was*.

 

Cuben Fiber is a restricted trade name that is only supposed to be used in reference to sails and sailcloth made or sold exclusively through North Sails.

 

Cubic Technology is the company responsible for ongoing development and non-maritime marketing of the same sh*t.

 

CTF3 was last year's name for the above referenced material sold on the non-maritime market. It comes in about a bazillion flavors -- about 190 different weights in Dyneema, the same in Kevlar/Vectran/whatever, four or five common scrims and lots of exotic stuff. We use it in colors, in patterns (AOR1 anybody? hi serenity!) and in different weights.

 

To my very brief inspective eye, the Terra nova looked like a CT.5K.05 or CT1K.08 with one side breen and one side clear while the brooks range looks like a CT2AK.18 with one side aluminized. If I was right, the material will turn to very expensive garbage in a short period of time in the alpine environment. Those darn pokey ice screw things will devastate those materials. The Z Pack looks like CT5K.18 in the green, and I'd say that he's losing money with every pack that he sells whether he knows it or not.

 

CiloGear uses three different variants in every NWD pack. It took us about sixty five packs tested to destruction to get to the understanding of how to work with the material. I literally wrote the book on how to make packs with the stuff. And there is always more to learn. I'm working on shaving off about 1/5 of the weight of the NWD packs right now, while increasing their durability, strength and load carrying capabilities.

 

*It was a Thursday.

[crackers]

... It's on sale at the consignment shop. Sorry Graham. It's not you, it's me. really! Size lrg DOES NOT fit my 19.5 in torso (too big) ...

 

Of course, that's why CiloGear does returns and offers a warranty. But good luck!