Fairweather Posted March 2, 2010 Posted March 2, 2010 whatever paranoia i have against gun toters is likely the result of a gun being pulled on me by an angry red-neck in shenendoah national park - though i was in the park according to the map and signs, he was confident i was on HIS land - i'm pretty certain having a gun myself in that situation could only have made things worse Maybe it was that Yankay unifoam ya had on? Quote
tvashtarkatena Posted March 2, 2010 Posted March 2, 2010 The U.S. is exactly like Mexico and Switzerland, except for the guns. Or we don't have as many guns. Or something like that. Quote
summitchaserCJB Posted March 2, 2010 Posted March 2, 2010 This is all I have left to add to the conversation. Yes! Couldn't have said it better myself. Quote
Stonehead Posted March 2, 2010 Posted March 2, 2010 Well now, we do have provision for the Article V Convention. Quote
j_b Posted March 2, 2010 Posted March 2, 2010 I don't get it either. Even when I work in AK none of us carry firearms, unless required to by the agency we're working for. I have made sure I had pepper spray in instances I knew were were going to spend time in bear infested places. One state biologist we worked with carried a rifle when he worked for the feds and was charged by a big boar they surprised near a creek. He got the rifle off his shoulder, the bear charged to within 5 feet, stood up on it's hind legs towering over him, then got back down on 4s and wander off. His statement of why he didn't fire? "I knew he was going to stop" I only pack a 12 gauge when I work solo in the Alaska bush. I never had to use it but it helps me work better without constantly looking over my shoulder and I suspect I sleep a little better too; however, I never felt the need for a gun because of people. Quote
trainwreck Posted March 2, 2010 Posted March 2, 2010 you americans are really weird about guns. like, really weird. Quote
LostCamKenny Posted March 2, 2010 Posted March 2, 2010 you americans are really weird about guns. like, really weird. you have the right to bear arms or the right to arm bears, whatever you want to do. what's really weird is how this thread made it to 5 pages without a bunch of requests to have it moved to spray since firearms and climbing are soooo related - and i mean related in the way that an apple and a hacksaw are related... Quote
gyro Posted March 2, 2010 Posted March 2, 2010 you americans are really weird about guns. like, really weird. you have the right to bear arms or the right to arm bears, whatever you want to do. what's really weird is how this thread made it to 5 pages without a bunch of requests to have it moved to spray since firearms and climbing are soooo related - and i mean related in the way that an apple and a hacksaw are related... So you're saying I've been slicing my apples wrong all this time? Quote
LostCamKenny Posted March 2, 2010 Posted March 2, 2010 you americans are really weird about guns. like, really weird. you have the right to bear arms or the right to arm bears, whatever you want to do. what's really weird is how this thread made it to 5 pages without a bunch of requests to have it moved to spray since firearms and climbing are soooo related - and i mean related in the way that an apple and a hacksaw remote control are related... Quote
LostCamKenny Posted March 2, 2010 Posted March 2, 2010 you americans are really weird about guns. like, really weird. you have the right to bear arms or the right to arm bears, whatever you want to do. what's really weird is how this thread made it to 5 pages without a bunch of requests to have it moved to spray since firearms and climbing are soooo related - and i mean related in the way that an apple and a hacksaw are related... So you're saying I've been slicing my apples wrong all this time? Quote
Figger_Eight Posted March 2, 2010 Posted March 2, 2010 you americans are really weird about guns. like, really weird. Troof. Quote
tvashtarkatena Posted March 2, 2010 Posted March 2, 2010 (edited) Here's something that really has nothing to do with climbing. Per capita gun ownership by country. Yeah, the USA is definitely number one...WAY out in front, as a matter of fact. Per capita gun ownership worldwide versus per capita gun homicides by country: Gun homicides per capita by country Comparing that aforementioned fortress of Armed Politeness Switzerland with the USA, for example, we find that Americans own 3 times more guns per capita than the Swiss, yet our crime rates are...wait, this can't be right...more than five times higher. By that posters logic, the solution to gun crime in gang areas, for example, would be to simply ARM THE GANGS...you know, to increase the politeness factor. IF those ganstas only knew that other ganstas were packin.... The gun lobby loves to sing its silver bullet song of an armed, polite society, but reality, of course, is quite a bit more complicated than that. But most of us already knew that. America's addiction to guns, and I'm not talking about yer over and under grouse gun, here...guns meant to kill people, should come as no surprise, given that we own 40% of the world's armaments...more than the next 10 countries combined. Every American man, woman, and child spends over $2300 a year on the military...nearly 60% of our national discretionary budget. In the aggregate, we are an extremely addictive, paranoid society. Gun fetishism, such as the need to carry a firearm into a National Park (???), is just one of many manifestations of that national weirdness. Edited March 2, 2010 by tvashtarkatena Quote
j_b Posted March 2, 2010 Posted March 2, 2010 One has to be careful with comparing gun ownership in the US and Switzerland. The Swiss take military weapons home (they serve one week a year for several decades), but I believe access to ammunition is severely restricted. The preceding suggests that most gun ownership in Switzerland isn't owning a pistol but a rifle; handguns being the weapons most used in manslaughter in the US. Quote
Stonehead Posted March 3, 2010 Posted March 3, 2010 I think the problem might be trying to deal with unknowns. This issue seems to be more about fear than a rational response to the change in regulation. The mere sight of a gun shouldn’t, in itself, cause alarm. Perhaps the cumulative consumption of mass media which portrays firearms in a particular context (one which invariably leads to violence and/or death) has lead to sensitization. On the contrary, if one were familiar with the life of hunters, he would realize that one can possess many firearms yet not pose an imminent danger to society. You do realize that a hunter may possess four or more guns including ammo for such? One could have a 12 gauge or 20 gauge for duck hunting, a 410 or 22 for small game, a 30-30 or 30-06 for large game, etc. Granted, pistols are a different matter. So you might have something here. And I do agree with you that control is essential. It appears in the Swiss video that ammo is present in the gun safe along with multiple firearms. Perhaps it is training and requisite responsibility that is a crucial difference. The regulation was relaxed to bring federal law in synch with state laws. This is especially pertinent in the western states where one may easily travel in and out of federal lands as one traverses the territory. At this point I think the matter is a non-issue for the majority of people who will visit the national parks. The change will not be evident despite fears of seeing a gun toting public. Quote
swissman Posted March 3, 2010 Posted March 3, 2010 [video:youtube]v=6nf1OgV449g Fast forward to about 2:08 for those of you who don't have 3 minutes of time. The Swiss have a militia system where citizens are armed with military grade firearms. Despite that, the Swiss are not afflicted by a high number of gun shooting deaths and their gun crime rate is so low as to be virtually nonexistent. Granted, Switzerland is a less populous country than the US. It seems to indicate that although guns are contributory they are not the cause of violence. Perhaps there is something else that is endemic to the US that leads to violence. And if you think it’s confined to guns, think again. If you ever been on the receiving end of road rage, you’d know what I mean. [video:youtube]v=2TVooUHN7j4 Of course, this doesn't mean by default that everyone should have access to similar weapons. And, I'm not saying that guns are always the answer. Possessing one is analogous to training in other self defense skills such as martial arts. One doesn't train in order to attack people but to have something to counter the threat to one's being or family. Now, that was quite funny. Switzerland having a lower crime rate has a lot more to do with the fact it's a police state with a serious law enforcement presence rather than to gun "ownership". We don't truely own our firearms for the most part. We have our assault rifle at home along with a small amount (2 cilps worth) of amunition. That's part of being a member of a militia army. We just store our kit at home. Now, the amunition is sealed off and severly controlled (meaning, tempering with it is the surefire way to get a couple of weeks in the jail when gettting back in service every year or so). Sure, one can get amunition one way or another, but almost nobody bothers. The rifle is stowed away, often disassembled, and not bothered with until it's time to get into another (annoying) refresher course... It's not a rifle folks cherish and enjoy playing with... However, because of the army, most guys have been through a good deal of firearm safety. Now, that helps eliminating a lot of accidental shootings within the home. Folks just had drilled in them how to manage firearms. Quote
tvashtarkatena Posted March 3, 2010 Posted March 3, 2010 Dood, better prepare for a Swiss crime wave, now that the cat's out of the bag LOL I love the picture I get in my head when the NRA trots out it's 'polite, armed society' argument: a meth head declining, at the last moment, to break into your house because he just read that gun ownership nationwide is up 4% that year. Quote
KaskadskyjKozak Posted August 31, 2010 Posted August 31, 2010 http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38937885 too bad he didn't shoot himself in the nuts Quote
NYice Posted August 31, 2010 Posted August 31, 2010 too bad he didn't shoot himself in the nuts That's why they teach you to use your back pocket. Oh, wait a minute ... Quote
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