ZimZam Posted January 30, 2010 Posted January 30, 2010 Cut him some slack. It was time the thread came to a rest anyway. All the Jeebus talk makes me sleepy. However, while I was nodding off I had a vision. The answer came to me. Jesus will not make you a better climber, but Allah will, infidel. Quote
StevenSeagal Posted January 30, 2010 Posted January 30, 2010 However, while I was nodding off I had a vision. Are you the Nodder? Quote
kevbone Posted January 30, 2010 Posted January 30, 2010 First you must prove he/she/it does exist. Hey Kevbone, Head on out to the coast. The next wave you see coming in, try to stop it. Better yet, try to start one. Better yet, come up with something more spectacular than nature. That's pretty much all the proof I need. Call me stupid, but it works for me. I agree nature is amazing. Still does not prove anything, to me at least. Quote
Doug Posted January 30, 2010 Posted January 30, 2010 and the thread comes to a dead stop... it's what i do . Actually, that's what I do. Damn didn't work. Quote
Choada_Boy Posted January 30, 2010 Posted January 30, 2010 Seriously. I'm interested to hear peoples thoughts on this. If I go to church do you think Jesus power will make me climb harder??? Because, if Jesus helps me climb harder..... There is no god. Prove it. He doesn't have to prove "god" doesn't exist, you have to prove that all the evidence that "god" doesn't exist is inconsistent with observations, and then accept that the only logical conclusion is that "god" exists. Or, if you say "god" does exist, you have to provide incontrovertible evidence of this "fact", if it is such. Fat chance. Just because there are presents under the tree doesn't mean there's a Santa. Quote
gyro Posted January 30, 2010 Posted January 30, 2010 Seriously. I'm interested to hear peoples thoughts on this. If I go to church do you think Jesus power will make me climb harder??? Because, if Jesus helps me climb harder..... There is no god. Prove it. You can't prove a negative. The argument from ignorance,[1] also known as argumentum ad ignorantiam ("appeal to ignorance"[1][2]), argument by lack of imagination[citation needed], or negative evidence,[1] is a logical fallacy in which it is claimed that a premise is true only because it has not been proven false, or is false only because it has not been proven true. If you assert that god exists then provide proof of existence. The existence of nature simply proves the existence of nature. If you do not have proof that could withstand third party scrutiny then recognize that you have a matter of faith, not proof or fact. What you choose to believe is up to you, but if you try to assert unprovable things to the world then expect to be called on it. Likewise, you can't disprove the existence of a god. You might be able to provide alternate explanations for various things, but you can't prove non existence. Seriously, take a basic philosophy logic course. Quote
Bug Posted January 30, 2010 Posted January 30, 2010 Here we are in spray. Now we can say what we really think. It was as inevitable as Kevbone finding a turd and sniffing it. A dungbeetle's paradise. Where to begin,........ Aw fuckit, I'm going to Index to get dripped on and aid some slime. Quote
denalidave Posted January 30, 2010 Posted January 30, 2010 Seriously. I'm interested to hear peoples thoughts on this. If I go to church do you think Jesus power will make me climb harder??? Because, if Jesus helps me climb harder..... There is no god. Prove it. You can't prove a negative. The argument from ignorance,[1] also known as argumentum ad ignorantiam ("appeal to ignorance"[1][2]), argument by lack of imagination[citation needed], or negative evidence,[1] is a logical fallacy in which it is claimed that a premise is true only because it has not been proven false, or is false only because it has not been proven true. If you assert that god exists then provide proof of existence. The existence of nature simply proves the existence of nature. If you do not have proof that could withstand third party scrutiny then recognize that you have a matter of faith, not proof or fact. What you choose to believe is up to you, but if you try to assert unprovable things to the world then expect to be called on it. Likewise, you can't disprove the existence of a god. You might be able to provide alternate explanations for various things, but you can't prove non existence. Seriously, take a basic philosophy logic course. Exactly. If Boner says god does not exist, he needs to back it up with some proof. Of course, you cannot prove a negative. On the other hand, if he said he does not BELIEVE in god, that is a another story. It just seems pretty arrogant (IM0) for anyone to think they know enough about the entire universe to state as fact that god does not exist. Course, we all know trashie is almost that smart, but boner? Just because boner had a bad experience growing up and had RELIGION shoved down his throat (like many of us) does not mean god does not, or cannot exist. Quote
Choada_Boy Posted January 30, 2010 Posted January 30, 2010 The existance of god can be disproved. Quote
kevbone Posted January 30, 2010 Posted January 30, 2010 It just seems pretty arrogant (IM0) for anyone to think they know enough about the entire universe to state as fact that god does not exist. One could say that about believers too. Quote
mike1 Posted January 30, 2010 Posted January 30, 2010 (edited) Just now reading through this whole thread and... No, I do not BELIEVE that praying to Jesus or any higher power will help you climb better related to the onset of some miraculous ability. However, praying in general, can be very meditative and calming as well as opening up personal revelations about your mind and body. Sure that can definitely help you climb better. Proof there is no god? Give science some more time.... or go to Haiti. Edited January 30, 2010 by mike1 Quote
Stonehead Posted January 30, 2010 Posted January 30, 2010 Seriously. I'm interested to hear peoples thoughts on this. If I go to church do you think Jesus power will make me climb harder??? Because, if Jesus helps me climb harder..... Maybe, maybe not. Seems like a very subjective question where one has to supply a lot of assumptions to answer. In the general case, I’d have to lean towards maybe not, especially as it relates to a special factor but even within the context of an overall scheme such as body conditioning, physical and mental training, working on technique, etc. However, in a more specific case, I’d have to say yes. Consider the hypothetical case of an Iraqi war veteran who has lost one of his legs but was a climber before his deployment. Religion in that case might assist in finding some source of strength in the face of adversity. At the very least, a community of like-minded individuals will serve to provide constructive reinforcement. And if the climber with the prosthetic leg fails a particular project then religion might give him solace to continue sending on other ambitious projects or adapt to realities. So my conclusion is, a climber needn't have a Nietzschean ethic to be a better climber. Quote
gyro Posted January 30, 2010 Posted January 30, 2010 Exactly. If Boner says god does not exist, he needs to back it up with some proof. Of course, you cannot prove a negative. On the other hand, if he said he does not BELIEVE in god, that is a another story. It just seems pretty arrogant (IM0) for anyone to think they know enough about the entire universe to state as fact that god does not exist. Course, we all know trashie is almost that smart, but boner? Just because boner had a bad experience growing up and had RELIGION shoved down his throat (like many of us) does not mean god does not, or cannot exist. Remember, it goes both ways. Just as god cannot be disproved, god cannot be proven. The existance of god can be disproved. God cannot exist. Please demonstrate using strictly objective statements. To claim proof of existence or nonexistence, imho, requires an incredible level of conceit in ones own reasoning ability. If you think so little of the universe that you believe there must be a god, than I feel sorry for you. If you think so little of the universe that you know there is no god, than I also feel sorry for you. Whatever happened to looking up at a night sky from some remote ridge and indulging yourself in wonder? Why do you have to codify your beliefs one way or another, often without proof? Whether you believe in god or not, the universe is an awesome place. Quote
Choada_Boy Posted January 30, 2010 Posted January 30, 2010 Please define god. Then I will prove that god does not exist. You can "wonder" all you want about whatever you want, but there is no god. Quote
Stonehead Posted January 30, 2010 Posted January 30, 2010 Please define god. Then I will prove that god does not exist. You can "wonder" all you want about whatever you want, but there is no god. That's a good question (what is god?). some atheists pray, but not to a god or a deity. orthodox buddhists are atheists, and they pray. i think prayer can be powerful stuff, whether or not one believes in a "god". I disagree wit ya on whether Buddhists are atheists. Some of the New Age varieties of Buddhism might fit your description but Buddhism is primarily a syncretic religion that merges local religious beliefs such as seen in Tibet with the Bon deities or in Japan with the Shinto kami. Furthermore, Tibetan Vajrayana Buddhism combines Hindu and Buddhist icons. Of course, everything depends on your definition of what constitutes a god or an atheist. Could you agree that an atheist is simply a materialist in that he does not believe in existence apart from the corporeal body and as a materialist he chooses not to believe in god(s)? So, he does not believe in the supernatural. Yet Buddhism is chock full of the supernatural. Sure, real psychological insights might get you hooked into the religion but the ultimate goal is reaching the state of nirvana, that elusive goal that, it’s said, only one being achieves within aeons of Time. It seems to me that a tacit belief in the supernatural is prerequisite to the goal of Buddhist enlightened self-interest (compassion towards all sentient beings is the action that leads to nirvana). I suppose though if you were to take the New Age tact and practice a bastardized version of Buddhism as a technology of the body and mind then sure, go ahead and use autogenic suggestion, self-hypnosis, etc. You might eke out some performance gains but at some point you’ll reach a pinnacle where “biology is destiny”. Quote
denalidave Posted January 30, 2010 Posted January 30, 2010 The existance of god can be disproved. Then enlighten us. Quote
denalidave Posted January 30, 2010 Posted January 30, 2010 Please define god. Then I will prove that god does not exist. You can "wonder" all you want about whatever you want, but there is no god. Again, in order to be certain there is no god, you must yourself be all knowing of everything in the universe, thus making you god and contradicting yourself. Which is it? Quote
denalidave Posted January 30, 2010 Posted January 30, 2010 It just seems pretty arrogant (IM0) for anyone to think they know enough about the entire universe to state as fact that god does not exist. One could say that about believers too. Yes, but that does not make your statement "there is no god" any truer. (Que trashie's all-knowing wisdom for the next 50 pages of drivel.) Quote
denalidave Posted January 30, 2010 Posted January 30, 2010 Just now reading through this whole thread and... No, I do not BELIEVE that praying to Jesus or any higher power will help you climb better related to the onset of some miraculous ability. However, praying in general, can be very meditative and calming as well as opening up personal revelations about your mind and body. Sure that can definitely help you climb better. Proof there is no god? Give science some more time.... or go to Haiti. Now natural disasters are proof there is no god? Come on, you got to do better than that. Quote
denalidave Posted January 30, 2010 Posted January 30, 2010 Please define god. That is a good starting point. Quote
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