dberdinka Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 WOW! And to have my words turned on me like that. Oh my goodness! What a powerful arguement! Presuming one were to believe that placing a bolt and cutting down old trees having...well...absolutely anything in common. Purpose, visibility, enviromental impact, moral equivalence. You and your buddy are a joke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete_H Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 Its actually a pretty good analogy. And regarding your talk of respecting the first ascentionist, Leland and co. certainly didn't respect Priess's FA of the face, the line nor the style with which it was put up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete_H Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 Regardless of power drill bolting in a Wilderness Area and bolting over an existing trad line, have you ever climbed one of Leland's routes? Bolt every fucking two feet. Fucking weak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete_H Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 No. The vast majority of climbers are reliant on the creativity and hardwork of a few Sooooooooo true. A lot of folks here have done FA's. Quit autofellating yourself over it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keenwesh Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 who bolted endless bliss at exit 38? that thing needs to get some bolts chopped on it. it's like 5.8 slab and if you clip every bolt you never get above them! I think that takes away from the fun of slab climbing, when I did it I had to skip every other bolt and I ran out of quickdraws on the 130 foot "pitch". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dberdinka Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 Regardless of power drill bolting in a Wilderness Area and bolting over an existing trad line, have you ever climbed one of Leland's routes? Bolt every fucking two feet. Fucking weak. For all the bitchin on the internet about it I thought Condermoraphine was pretty darn good! Plenty of bolts yes but not the bolted monstrosity it had been routinely described as. Presumably IB is not much different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephH Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 ...and then creating a high quality rock climb... Except IB isn't one of those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 ...and then creating a high quality rock climb... Except IB isn't one of those. How would you know? Second hand information? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LUCKY Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 (edited) who bolted endless bliss at exit 38? that thing needs to get some bolts chopped on it. it's like 5.8 slab and if you clip every bolt you never get above them! I think that takes away from the fun of slab climbing, when I did it I had to skip every other bolt and I ran out of quickdraws on the 130 foot "pitch". Carful there young’n there is new sport climbing 20 minutes drive from OLY with a 10 minute approach walk, could be overbolted, wouldn’t want to go betaless like the rest of these crotchety old arm chair climbers do you? BTW AT the time he was ask to put up some safe slab climbs...guess you just can't please everyone Edited January 31, 2010 by LUCKY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Choada_Boy Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 Gee, guys, this is really fun!!! Here, let me try: Until you've dug a gold mine in a national park, until you've invested the enormous amount of energy and vision required to create a wedding ring from that gold mine, and until you've busted your ass hauling that wedding ring up from tree line and carefully placed it in an appropriate alpine meadow, and then proposed to your wife"....you simply don't get a voice in the discussion because you have no clue what your [sic] talking about. Seriously, it will change your perspective on the conversation." See? I used faulty logic to equate digging a gold mine with placing bolts! I've had almost no experience putting up FAs, but my biggest worry has been the trails. Bolt? Big fucking deal. Wiped out hillside from erosion? BIG fucking deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keenwesh Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 who bolted endless bliss at exit 38? that thing needs to get some bolts chopped on it. it's like 5.8 slab and if you clip every bolt you never get above them! I think that takes away from the fun of slab climbing, when I did it I had to skip every other bolt and I ran out of quickdraws on the 130 foot "pitch". Carful there young’n there is new sport climbing 20 minutes drive from OLY with a 10 minute approach walk, could be overbolted, wouldn’t want to go betaless like the rest of these crotchety old arm chair climbers do you? wait what? fossil rock? can you climb there in winter? or are the developers keeping it on the DL? as for my stance on endless bliss (at e38) the climb itself is fantastic! the stone actually is almost like velcro, but with the inflated grade (I'd say it's barely even 5.8, when it was originally rated 5.10) and myriad bolts, that fantastic slab is taken away from. compare it to west country on stately pleasure dome in toulumue. it's 5.7, but the bolts are 20+ feet apart it's really cool to get to the top of a pitch and look down and see only 5 quickdraws, as opposed to looking down a shorter pitch and seeing 15 clips, with even more bolts in between that you skipped because you don't own that many quickdraws. I have not climbed IB, but I want to this spring, my last try at it ended before it had begun, at the gated road 8 miles from the taylor river bridge at 5.30 in the morning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LUCKY Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 (edited) Regardless of power drill bolting in a Wilderness Area and bolting over an existing trad line, have you ever climbed one of Leland's routes? Bolt every fucking two feet. Fucking weak. So you climb his routes than talk shit on the internet, NOW THAT'S PHUK'N WEAK!! Personally I get more pissed when a route setter of a sport climb puts my old ass at risk! If I want risk I will grab my rack and run it out. Edited January 31, 2010 by LUCKY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 Would anyone's opinions of this route honestly be any different if the bolts had been hand-drilled? It seems like the whole "power drilling in a wilderness area!" thing is just a convenient excuse for people to rail against a climb they wouldn't like anyway regardless of that issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LUCKY Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 who bolted endless bliss at exit 38? that thing needs to get some bolts chopped on it. it's like 5.8 slab and if you clip every bolt you never get above them! I think that takes away from the fun of slab climbing, when I did it I had to skip every other bolt and I ran out of quickdraws on the 130 foot "pitch". Carful there young’n there is new sport climbing 20 minutes drive from OLY with a 10 minute approach walk, could be overbolted, wouldn’t want to go betaless like the rest of these crotchety old arm chair climbers do you? wait what? fossil rock? can you climb there in winter? or are the developers keeping it on the DL? as for my stance on endless bliss (at e38) the climb itself is fantastic! the stone actually is almost like velcro, but with the inflated grade (I'd say it's barely even 5.8, when it was originally rated 5.10) and myriad bolts, that fantastic slab is taken away from. compare it to west country on stately pleasure dome in toulumue. it's 5.7, but the bolts are 20+ feet apart it's really cool to get to the top of a pitch and look down and see only 5 quickdraws, as opposed to looking down a shorter pitch and seeing 15 clips, with even more bolts in between that you skipped because you don't own that many quickdraws. I have not climbed IB, but I want to this spring, my last try at it ended before it had begun, at the gated road 8 miles from the taylor river bridge at 5.30 in the morning. No not Fossil young'n carful here!!!There is getting to be as many new routes and areas in the NW as there are old but the sprayers on this topic are not going to hook you up!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bug Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 Regardless of power drill bolting in a Wilderness Area and bolting over an existing trad line, have you ever climbed one of Leland's routes? Bolt every fucking two feet. Fucking weak. So you climb his routes than talk shit on the internet, NOW THAT PHUK'N WEAK!! Would you advocate having no standards? Unfortunately, these differences blow up into full blown fights. But the discussion needs to continue so we don't end up with shit nobody likes all over the place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Off_White Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 Its actually a pretty good analogy. And regarding your talk of respecting the first ascentionist, Leland and co. certainly didn't respect Priess's FA of the face, the line nor the style with which it was put up. Yeah, and what's with those guys who did Girth Pillar, the Ice Cliff Couloir had already been done, without any of that whack and dangle shennanigans! According to Mike Priess, his route and IB overlap for 3 to 5 pitches, so really neither is a variation of the other, and we're talking about two different FA parties on adjacent routes. I completely understand the disappointment in having your adventure route overshadowed by an adjacent later sport route, but its not the same as having your bold line retrobolted by latecomers. Down at Smith, would you say that To Bolt Or Not To Be completely disrespects the line and style in which Sunshine Dihedral was put up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bug Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 Its actually a pretty good analogy. And regarding your talk of respecting the first ascentionist, Leland and co. certainly didn't respect Priess's FA of the face, the line nor the style with which it was put up. Yeah, and what's with those guys who did Girth Pillar, the Ice Cliff Couloir had already been done, without any of that whack and dangle shennanigans! According to Mike Priess, his route and IB overlap for 3 to 5 pitches, so really neither is a variation of the other, and we're talking about two different FA parties on adjacent routes. I completely understand the disappointment in having your adventure route overshadowed by an adjacent later sport route, but its not the same as having your bold line retrobolted by latecomers. Down at Smith, would you say that To Bolt Or Not To Be completely disrespects the line and style in which Sunshine Dihedral was put up? Crag vs Wilderness setting. Apples and oranges imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LUCKY Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 Regardless of power drill bolting in a Wilderness Area and bolting over an existing trad line, have you ever climbed one of Leland's routes? Bolt every fucking two feet. Fucking weak. So you climb his routes than talk shit on the internet, NOW THAT PHUK'N WEAK!! Would you advocate having no standards? Unfortunately, these differences blow up into full blown fights. But the discussion needs to continue so we don't end up with shit nobody likes all over the place. I'm not shank'n myself out of beta or climbing partners how about you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LUCKY Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 Ethics: from issue 56 of rock and Ice like way back Dude!! Generally an attempt by yesterdays climbers to discredit any new style of climbing they are unable to do because of LACK OF SKILL OR MOTOVATION. arguing ethics is a sure way to stay on the ground posing instead of shutting up and climbing. Ethics police: People who feel frustrated with life and sublimate a desire to be Nazis by enforcing rules that only they are clear about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LUCKY Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 Its actually a pretty good analogy. And regarding your talk of respecting the first ascentionist, Leland and co. certainly didn't respect Priess's FA of the face, the line nor the style with which it was put up. Yeah, and what's with those guys who did Girth Pillar, the Ice Cliff Couloir had already been done, without any of that whack and dangle shennanigans! According to Mike Priess, his route and IB overlap for 3 to 5 pitches, so really neither is a variation of the other, and we're talking about two different FA parties on adjacent routes. I completely understand the disappointment in having your adventure route overshadowed by an adjacent later sport route, but its not the same as having your bold line retrobolted by latecomers. Down at Smith, would you say that To Bolt Or Not To Be completely disrespects the line and style in which Sunshine Dihedral was put up? Crag vs Wilderness setting. Apples and oranges imo. At this time I would ask if you please state your real names as to add credibility to your post and also I will know who not share beta with or hook up with as a climbing partner LUCKY Curtis Gibson Tenino Washington Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raindawg Posted January 31, 2010 Author Share Posted January 31, 2010 At this time I would ask if you please state your real names as to add credibility to your post and also I will know who not share beta with or hook up with as a climbing partner LUCKY Curtis Gibson Tenino Washington No worries, dude....whether I'm referred to as "Raindawg", "Dwayner" or "Don", I don't intend to personally share beta nor "hook up" with you as a climbing partner. BACK TO THE SUBJECT and something to consider: If you choose to climb IB, knowing full well that it was illegally established in a Wilderness area, then you are endorsing its existence. That's why some of us will likely never climb that "route" other than with the purpose of erasing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LUCKY Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 (edited) Edited February 1, 2010 by LUCKY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raindawg Posted February 1, 2010 Author Share Posted February 1, 2010 So I'm call'n you out!!! post your full name ...most of us know and do tell us all, all your new sends and routes you have put up!!! You never will climb the route because your fat ass can't get off the phuk'n couch or the computer!! phuk you chump stop stir'n up needless sh*t!! Dude...we're trying to have a discussion here and you're detracting from it with your vulgarity and personal attacks. Or are you just trying to get this topic dumped into spray again because you seem to profoundly disagree with it? I started this topic with the following and a variety of interesting perspectives have been shared: ...without resorting to crass name-calling or other distractions, why might you agree or disagree with the idea of those guys cleaning up their mistake? Give it a try or go away...really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LUCKY Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 (edited) My wife says my blood presure is going up ...my face is turning red ... Edited February 1, 2010 by LUCKY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 dawg the discussion's over - the positions have been stated, the reasons provided and all sides further entrenched - at this point there's nothing left to do but fucking curse - has one person changed their mind or made progress one way or t'other? for yourself, i don't reall you answering a serious question but i'll restate it for shits'n'giggles: if the whole thing was chopped and reinstalled by hand, would you stfu up about it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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