Yes, Obama did turn out to be a TRUST buster!

[j_b]

You'd be surprised. I am quite jovial.

 

What else do you see in your crystal ball today? How is my fortune doing?

[Off_White]

I'll concur on The Worst Hard Time, its a great read. Tim Eagan's a great writer, and he got this one done while he could still talk to folks who'd been through the dust bowl.

 

There's a great history of farm subsidies buried in there too, but that's a different topic.

[ZimZam]

In Stegner's "Where the Bluebird Sings to the Lemonade Springs" he discusses the aridity issues affecting the West. Another good read. Have to return some library books tomorrow. I'll pick up WHT. Thanks for the recommendation.

 

A few months back I saw a documentary on the Dustbowl. Folks had to run a line from the house to the barn just to get back and forth. If I remember correctly many times the Dust reached NYC.

[ivan]

If I remember correctly many times the Dust reached NYC.

in classic libtard fashion, THAT was when roosevelt began to give a shit

[tvashtarkatena]

After JB spends two years in a tuberculosis sanitorium, his adolescent and teen years in abusive foster homes cuz the fam financially fell apart, and 4 years fighting a world war, he can let us all know how much tougher times are these days.

[j_b]

and you claim that my reading comprehension is poor? I expect better from you Tvash, seriously.

[tvashtarkatena]

Best not to take this shit too seriously.

 

Seriously.

[billcoe]

there's no way its worse today than in the depression

 

Literally starving to death in a land of plenty.....damn rough. I'll check it out Ivan but for now I'm still stuck hard-a-fast on the O'Brien Aubrey/Maturin books ya bastard. Great recommendation and reads though even if I was sucked in much like a turd into a whirlpool. I'm hooked and at about book 6.....of 20 something...so I hope to resurface next spring.

 

The good news is that I've been watching a lot less TV! Speaking of readers, it was great reading to your kids. I didn't know how young your little guy was....grabbed my boys favorite book from when he was @ 5/6 (the 3 Billy's possums) and your sons eyes started looking around in boredom b4 we were 1/2 way through. Your daughter was still engaged. They liked the nightmare behind the door better.

 

ps, I think I'd enjoy trail time with JB, he's smart, interesting and passionate, even when he's wrong....no disrespect meant there.

[Peter_Puget]

 

 

Comrade J_B -

 

We have these "lemmings" in my country too. Here is how I drive them into the ocean! (For their own good of course)

 

 

Power to the people not the lemmings!

 

 

[j_b]

What? no appeal to niceties from the red-baiting goon squad today?

 

How many commies did you root out today?

 

Nice hat btw:

 

 

[JayB]

That the middle class is rapidly eroding is statistical fact. The typical counter argument from the Right is 'you're a kook', but I've never heard or read anything, not one thing, from that confederation of dunces to actually refute what is obvious, both anecdotally and numerically. Hint for the simple or lazy minded: start by comparing cost of living to wages.

 

Now, on the other side of the coin, to even remotely compare today's situation, which really isn't that bad, to the 30's, which was an abject nightmare (as recounted by my parents, for example), is patently ridiculous. It's an issue of perspective. We now have two generations who have enjoyed suckling on mommy's warm and loving tit, basically exposed to little or no hardship. When hardship comes around, as it has, it's little surprise that a great big cry of WTF? should rise towards the heavens.

 

How do you define middle-class, and what data set confirms that it's disappearing?

 

Most of the data that I've seen tells a different story depending on the statistical categories that the analyst chooses. "Households" seem to be a favorite despite the fact that the composition of the average household has changed significantly over the interval being considered, a household for demographic group A isn't the same as an average household for group B, the quintiles being compared don't contain the same number of people, the composition of the average income (money-wages vs benefits vs subsidies vs tax credits etc) differs between groups and quintiles, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc.

 

 

Below for example, you've got the same data, parsed with different statistical categories.

 

 

 

Agree with your sentiments about the current national hardships vs the depression though.

[prole]

Most of the data that I've seen tells a different story depending on the statistical categories that the analyst chooses. "Households" seem to be a favorite despite the fact that the composition of the average household has changed significantly over the interval being considered, a household for demographic group A isn't the same as an average household for group B, the quintiles being compared don't contain the same number of people, the composition of the average income (money-wages vs benefits vs subsidies vs tax credits etc) differs between groups and quintiles, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc.

 

 

Below for example, you've got the same data, parsed with different statistical categories.

 

 

 

Agree with your sentiments about the current national hardships vs the depression though.

 

Huh, interesting. Except that now everybody in the household except the family dog has a fucking job. And are working more hours. Or were...

[prole]

Why are you so goddamn shysty? Always trying to pull the wool n' shit. Do you get off on that?

[Fairweather]

...just to keep up with state and local taxes! (And those fucking red light camera fines you do-gooders foisted upon us.)

[prole]

...just to keep up with state and local taxes!

 

[ivan]

to keep up with...taxes! (And those fucking red light camera fines you do-gooders foisted upon us.)

to keep up w/ endless military spending and tax cuts for the rich?

 

i'm w/ you on the red-light camera thing, and the profusion of cameras in general in public spaces, but i've heard a lot of local govs are taking the cams down as they've actually REDUCED their income for such offenses (and of course, the private market being the god of your political strain, the cameras are oft installed and maintained by priate companies that dip their wicks deep into the profit they yield )

[KaskadskyjKozak]

That the middle class is rapidly eroding is statistical fact. The typical counter argument from the Right is 'you're a kook', but I've never heard or read anything, not one thing, from that confederation of dunces to actually refute what is obvious, both anecdotally and numerically. Hint for the simple or lazy minded: start by comparing cost of living to wages.

 

Now, on the other side of the coin, to even remotely compare today's situation, which really isn't that bad, to the 30's, which was an abject nightmare (as recounted by my parents, for example), is patently ridiculous. It's an issue of perspective. We now have two generations who have enjoyed suckling on mommy's warm and loving tit, basically exposed to little or no hardship. When hardship comes around, as it has, it's little surprise that a great big cry of WTF? should rise towards the heavens.

 

How do you define middle-class, and what data set confirms that it's disappearing?

 

Most of the data that I've seen tells a different story depending on the statistical categories that the analyst chooses. "Households" seem to be a favorite despite the fact that the composition of the average household has changed significantly over the interval being considered, a household for demographic group A isn't the same as an average household for group B, the quintiles being compared don't contain the same number of people, the composition of the average income (money-wages vs benefits vs subsidies vs tax credits etc) differs between groups and quintiles, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc.

 

 

Below for example, you've got the same data, parsed with different statistical categories.

 

 

 

Agree with your sentiments about the current national hardships vs the depression though.

 

BFD. There is a little thing called inflation to consider as well

 

[ivan]

There is a little thing called inflation to consider as well

probably why the first graph is put in terms of 2007 dollars?

[Fairweather]

...just to keep up with state and local taxes!

 

I can tell you've probably never experienced the joy of writing a check to your county treasurer for several thousand dollars for nothing more than the privilege of living in the home you worked so hard to own for another twelve months. It wouldn't be so bad, but for punks like you who have the audacity to then tell me it's not enough.

[ivan]

...just to keep up with state and local taxes!

 

I can tell you've probably never experienced the joy of writing a check to your county treasurer for several thousand dollars for nothing more than the privilege of living in the home you worked so hard to own for another twelve months. It wouldn't be so bad, but for punks like you who have the audacity to then tell me it's not enough.

i suspect if you lived in mogadishu you wouldn't begrudge the check so much

 

at any rate, wtf? how is that not part of your montly mortgage payment anyhow?

[prole]

...just to keep up with state and local taxes!

 

I can tell you've probably never experienced the joy of writing a check to your county treasurer for several thousand dollars for nothing more than the privilege of living in the home you worked so hard to own for another twelve months. It wouldn't be so bad, but for punks like you who have the audacity to then tell me it's not enough.

 

Awww, what's the matter, not rich enough to offshore your accounts? If you don't like the taxes in your area, do what the corporations do and just ship your wife and kids and house overseas. You and Peter Puget have been telling us for years that such a thing is practically a law of nature! What is it going to take for you to realize you've been shooting yourself in the foot with this angry white man schtick while the policies you've been voting for are responsible for the problems you're bitching about?

Edited February 1, 2010 by prole

[Fairweather]

at any rate, wtf? how is that not part of your montly mortgage payment anyhow?

 

Once you realize that this is a scam, you dedicate your entire being toward the elimination of P. We're free...except for the taxes.

[Fairweather]

Awww, what's the matter, not rich enough to offshore your accounts? If you don't like the taxes in your area, do what the corporations do and just ship your wife and kids and house overseas. You and Peter Puget have been telling us for years that such a thing is practically a law of nature! What is it going to take for you to realize you've been shooting yourself in the foot with this angry white man schtick while the policies you've been voting for are responsible for the problems you're bitching about?

 

Willful ignorance: a lefty trademark. My federal taxes are a pretty good deal. Too good, even! My local taxes are bordering on criminal. Assuming a sniveling little punk like you works at all; might I inquire as to which state agency have you and your bullshit union have affixed yourselves?

[prole]

My local taxes are bordering on criminal.

 

You should have moved to California in the late 70's.

[j_b]

Huh, interesting. Except that now everybody in the household except the family dog has a fucking job. And are working more hours. Or were...

 

Not only is everyone expected to work but fixed expenses like transportation, child care, health care, local nickel and dime regressive taxes, etc .. have increased much faster than family income (even more so when considering that inflation is systematically understated thanks to creative cooking of books). These findings aren't equivocal despite refusal by clowns to even acknowledge they exist.

 

[video:youtube]akVL7QY0S8A

 

 

Just watch JayB not even address Warren's work and later on keep pretending there are no data pointing to the demise of the middle class.

Edited February 1, 2010 by j_b