5.15

[RuMR]

no...but there is a shitload of hard 12's to mid 13's at the new river gorge that were put up from the ground hanging on gear and hooks and using 1/4" bolt ladders in some cases because it was waaaaaaaay too steep to bolt on rappel...

[RuMR]

new river gorge, best crag in america, in my opinion...

[StevenSeagal]

How did this thread turn into another BeaconZone wankfest? Isn't there some meme the mods can write that will siphon that drivel into the proper toilet?

[RJRiha]

What is the hardest face climb bolted on lead? I'm not talking scary but technically hardest.

 

Possibly Southern Belle in Yosemite. Theres a great story about the FA on Supertopo if you dig it up.

[billcoe]

How did this thread turn into another BeaconZone wankfest? Isn't there some meme the mods can write that will siphon that drivel into the proper toilet?

No one's talking about Beacon.

 

If ground up use of a hook is acceptable, whats the judges ruling here on ground up use of a Willy Stick?

http://www.climbingtrash.com/thewillystick.html

[img:center]http://www.climbingtrash.com/willystick2000.gif[/img]

 

"The Willy Stick was created by Bill Boyle during the early days at Maple Canyon, Utah. Boyle and other climbers established most routes by placing bolts while hanging from the last bolt they drilled. They adopted this ground-up, bolt to bolt method because the tops of most cliffs weren't accessible for rappel drilling and because many of the cobbles seemed too insecure for hooking. This bolt-to-bolt method of drilling can be a very strenuous way to establish a route and even harder on steep rock, not to mention that you don't get as much space between bolts. So, after one grueling day of drilling, Bill went home put on his thinking cap and, after a few High Point beers, conceived the Willy Stick. "

 

 

[hafilax]

What's the hardest route put up with a willy stick?

[kevbone]

How did this thread turn into another BeaconZone wankfest?

 

Because there are more of us than you.

 

 

Isn't there some meme the mods can write that will siphon that drivel into the proper toilet?

 

Spray?

[StevenSeagal]

How did this thread turn into another BeaconZone wankfest?

 

Because there are more of us than you.

 

Wankers? Yes, so i've noticed.

 

 

[Off_White]

Teh Willy Stick!

 

Heh, it's ground up, makes it trad, right?

[StevenSeagal]

No one's talking about Beacon.

 

same difference- Oregon cragging rant mixed in with bolting ethics and complaints about crowds and who has climbed there longer and how it's the best kept secret since sliced bread.

 

Kinda like one of those pinkbone threads where it's hard to discern which one is dumb and which one is dumber- in the end it's just a lot of noise.

 

[el jefe]

What is the hardest face climb bolted on lead? I'm not talking scary but technically hardest.

 

Possibly Southern Belle in Yosemite. Theres a great story about the FA on Supertopo if you dig it up.

 

huber brothers did some hard routes that were bolted on lead, "vom winde verweht" and "scaramouche" -- 5.13b and 5.13c, ca 8 pitches each with 40+ ft runouts on the "easy" 5.12 pitches.

[RJRiha]

What is the hardest face climb bolted on lead? I'm not talking scary but technically hardest.

 

Possibly Southern Belle in Yosemite. Theres a great story about the FA on Supertopo if you dig it up.

 

huber brothers did some hard routes that were bolted on lead, "vom winde verweht" and "scaramouche" -- 5.13b and 5.13c, ca 8 pitches each with 40+ ft runouts on the "easy" 5.12 pitches.

 

Didn't know about those. I went back and re-read the SB story, and it was first done as an aid route. Still bolted on lead, but not during the free ascent. Still damn proud though.

 

Hall of Mirrors had some pretty hard pitches drilled on lead.

 

Does anyone know if Dream On in Squamish was drilled on lead?

[billcoe]

Teh Willy Stick! Heh, it's ground up, makes it trad, right?

Thats called French Trad and they asterix the guidebook isn't it? You know, where use of a ladder or a headstand to start still called free.

 

Halifax, don't know that one, those guys bolted all kinds of routes in Maple Canyon, quite the contrast to Pinnacles, where the ethic is ground up/brown underwear......but "Climbing Trash"...heh heh

[RJRiha]

Teh Willy Stick! Heh, it's ground up, makes it trad, right?

Thats called French Trad and they asterix the guidebook isn't it? You know, where use of a ladder or a headstand to start still called free.

 

Halifax, don't know that one, those guys bolted all kinds of routes in Maple Canyon, quite the contrast to Pinnacles, where the ethic is ground up/brown underwear......but "Climbing Trash"...heh heh

 

What about a shoulder stand to finish? Do we asterisk the Beckey Route on Liberty Bell because he used a shoulder stand to get up the 5.7 boulder problem near the top?

[AlpineK]

I've heard a bunch of stories from my dad about climbing tactics used through the 60s. If we're going to be pure trad climbers then shoulder stands are one of many tactics that are pure.

[hafilax]

I'm mostly trying to figure out what's so objectionable about sport climbing. It's not the removal of the mental challenge because top-roping is OK. It's not the use of bolts because if they're far apart and runout it's OK or even revered. It's not that the bolts are too close together because freeing a bolt ladder is a noble goal. It's not the full rehearsal because Grit style head pointing takes balls. It's not that sport climbs wouldn't be possible if led since you could lead them by drilling on hooks or with a willy stick and again the whole bolt ladder thing. Is it that steep face climbing just shouldn't exist?

 

So if I aided a face route on hooks placing bolts as pro and then freed it pulling the rope after every fall only trying the route when I thought I was 'ready' would that be allowable? Is A2 hooking really that much more adventure and taking years to work a route really that much more noble than hang dogging?

[el jefe]

Actually what happened is....there's a nice stance where the crack gets a little wide. I placed a nut and weighted it slightly so that I could strip off some clothing. There was no falling or dogging, but it my mind it didn't quite count.

 

so what is "dogging"? i thought it meant to weight the pro and then continue upward rather than lowering back to the start and beginning again. i guess weighting the pro "slightly" doesn't count as dogging but nevertheless invalidates the ascent?

 

just trying to figure out the nuances of these so called ethics.

[RuMR]

its only slight dogging...

[el jefe]

so you aren't a "hangdog" but rather a "hangpuppy"? or maybe a hangdog but afraid to commit?

[denalidave]

I'm mostly trying to figure out what's so objectionable about sport climbing. It's not the removal of the mental challenge because top-roping is OK. It's not the use of bolts because if they're far apart and runout it's OK or even revered. It's not that the bolts are too close together because freeing a bolt ladder is a noble goal. It's not the full rehearsal because Grit style head pointing takes balls. It's not that sport climbs wouldn't be possible if led since you could lead them by drilling on hooks or with a willy stick and again the whole bolt ladder thing. Is it that steep face climbing just shouldn't exist?

 

So if I aided a face route on hooks placing bolts as pro and then freed it pulling the rope after every fall only trying the route when I thought I was 'ready' would that be allowable? Is A2 hooking really that much more adventure and taking years to work a route really that much more noble than hang dogging?

ALL THAT MATTERS IS POPE & DAWG MUST APPROVE OF ANYONE'S CLIMBING TACTICS/STYLE. If pope hangs on a nut, it is not hang-dogging. The rest of us suck, cause we clip bolts, period. How much clearer can the issue be?

[Kimmo]

Actually what happened is....there's a nice stance where the crack gets a little wide. I placed a nut and weighted it slightly so that I could strip off some clothing. There was no falling or dogging, but it my mind it didn't quite count.

 

so what is "dogging"? i thought it meant to weight the pro and then continue upward rather than lowering back to the start and beginning again. i guess weighting the pro "slightly" doesn't count as dogging but nevertheless invalidates the ascent?

 

 

In the words of our resident necrophagist:

 

"BOOOOOOOO."

[billcoe]

Is A2 hooking really that much more adventure and taking years to work a route really that much more noble than hang dogging?

 

The question I have is why is putting in a bolt such a violation of the public trust and of low moral standards, but it's OK to bash the f*ck out of a crack with pitons anytime and any place, and thus proceed to cause irreversible damage to the rock? (abiet minimal with each passing but on aggregate it all adds up).

 

Seriously. WTF, what ever happened to clean climbing? I think if someone is doing any FA today, they should HAVE to leave any and every pin they bash in. Otherwise, if you need a fixed piece, put in a bolt and think of all the bros that will follow. I consider bolting much cleaner, greener and healthier to the game than pitons.

 

There are of course some exceptions to this, any route that will be infrequently done, what difference does it make if it gets nailed 2 or 3 times?

[hafilax]

Pulling the rope after every fall is like telemark skiing. It's old school, it's more difficult, you can brag about the beauty and purity but in the end your stuck with moderate terrain.

(Yes there are outliers that can pull hard and tele hard but they would be arguably working harder stuff if they went with a different discipline.)

[Raindawg]

ALL THAT MATTERS IS POPE & DAWG MUST APPROVE OF ANYONE'S CLIMBING TACTICS/STYLE.

 

Hey! Thanks for recognizing our power and influence over your life! The weather's looking sad today so I'm afraid we'll have to hold back on our approval for you to do anything in the mountains until the weather improves.

But you do have our approval to mow a couple of lawns around here and make us dinner!

And when you're done with that, pope needs a shoe-shine.

[Off_White]

Its really simple: What I do is okay, what you do is wrong.

 

Is that clear enough for ya'll?