Half Ropes

[mzvarner]

im looking at getting a set (edelwiss oxygen). i know that with half ropes each rope its self is rated, so falling onto one strand is ok. you are also able to reduce rope drag by staggering your clips. however, do you have to stagger your clips or can you clip both strands into individual pieces if there is no rope drag, or is this increasing the force put on the piece if it were to catch a fall?

[pdk]

Do some internet research on "twin" ropes and that should give you your answer. Some ropes meet the standards to be both twins and doubles/half ropes. But otherwise, they are not interchangeable.

 

 

[summitchaserCJB]

Hey,

I have the beal jokers which are rated as twin, half or single so I have a lot of latitude if you will. If you have a rope that is rated for both twin and half ropes it is OK to clip them both into the same piece UNTIL you start clipped them separately. Once you start alternating clips and return to clipping together you create a situation in which one rope will have different amounts of pull (based on different piece placements). So you could have a situation where the two ropes move at different speeds in the same biner and could potentially saw each other. Make sense?

Edited December 28, 2009 by summitchaserCJB

[rocky_joe]

I'm pretty sure you'd be best served to climb on half ropes. By my understanding, half ropes can always be used as twins (as long as you follow what CJB said) but twins cannot be used as halves...unless i'm wrong.

[pdk]

Joe - my understanding is that you are wrong (no offense of course). Half ropes are not to be used as twins - for the same reason that single ropes are not to be used as twins - the impact forces are too high when you combine the two ropes together as twins. Really, neither half ropes nor twins should be used as the other - UNLESS - you have ropes that are rated as both. There are several rope manufacturers that make ropes that meet the ratings for twin AND half.

 

I might be wrong, but at least the internets agree.

 

http://www.rockandice.com/inthemag.php?id=8&type=gearguy

 

 

 

 

[The Jerk]

My understanding of this:

 

Twins are twins. Both through all pro. Not separated.

 

Half’s are half’s. Alternating pro. Not combined.

 

Twin/Half’s are both. Can go with either style.

 

What CLB says is true. My understanding is you can still do it but need to use a separate biner for each rope so they can move separately when clipped to the same piece if you’re mixing styles.

 

I use my twin/half’s all the time and love them. Always ready for a double rope rapp, and climbing in a group of 3 is almost as fast as a group of 2. And can be more fun, depending on who the 3rd climber is! LOL

 

I use the Metolius Monster Twin/Half 7.8’s, which just happen to be marked down 25% at the Metolius website right now!

 

 

[montypiton]

You don't want to switch from half-style to twin-style (or vice versa) during a pitch unless you clip the twin points with separate carabiners. Reason is, if ya got two ropes in one carabiner, and ya load only one of them (as in half rope)then you'll have rope moving against rope, and may melt the one that's not loaded! Not a good thing. Best not to alternate between styles on a pitch. You can probably twin most halfs or half most twins, but its better not to mix the two styles in a single pitch.

[Jon H]

You can probably twin most halfs or half most twins.

 

FALSE. Stop spreading misinformation before someone dies.

 

Ropes are rated by the manufacturer for very specific uses. Straying outside those approved uses is asking for disaster.

[NoahT]

Seriuosly, there is no mystery here...it's super clear.

[montypiton]

As you say, Jon...

[rocky_joe]

thanks for correcting me. glad i know now.

[mattp]

I don't want to start an on-line argument with somebody who has read the books and is "in fact" "right" but I'll say I agree with Monty to a significant extent: the fact is, you CAN probably use most halves as twins, and twins as halves.

 

We've been over this ground before and I know it is just plain wrong but when I first started using the skinny cords I don't think there was a distinction and, even if you do the ultimate no-no and run two ropes through the same 'biner after first clipping them separately I think tests will show that the likliehood that this will cause rope failure in event of a fall is WAY small and, even if in the 1 out of 1000 falls (you tell me the number) where this might occur it would only cause one rope to fail and not both.

 

Don't get me wrong: I DO read the labels and the technical manuals and I certainly recommend climbers pay attention to the recommended use of each product - whether it be a rope or a stove or a climbing helmet or whatever. But I will occasionally use a rope "wrong," I've used a stove to heat my engine block when it was -30, and I sometimes sit on my helmet and even climbed in one that was cracked.

 

 

[montypiton]

thanks, Matt - in fact, many of the current generation of skinny ropes are certified for both types of use. But I don't participate in pissing matches. Even if you win one, you still walk away covered with piss.

[Jon H]

Ha, that's almost as good as my standby (and not very politically correct, sorry)

 

"Arguing on the internet is like racing in the special olympics... even if you win, you're still disabled"

[Dane]

Internet info is worth what you paid for it. Just make sure your body can cash that check They call and RATE them as 1/2 ropes and twins for a reason.

[JosephH]

Ropes are rated by the manufacturer for very specific uses. Straying outside those approved uses is asking for disaster.

That's a bit melodramatic. And R&I does no one any favors muddying the water with that 'gear guy' column. 'Doubles' is and always will be a synonymous with 'half ropes' (two ropes used independently) - not twins (two ropes used together as one) - it was a lousy column in that respect.

 

Also, the reasons for, and the application of, double/half and twins ropes in alpine/ice and rock can vary quite a bit relative to the likelyhood of falling, sharp edges, and quality/frequency of protection with regard to how 'strict' an interpretation of protocols one should follow. Add to this advances in rope technology such that you can now buy a twin/half/single rated rope and the confusion is understandable. Then throw in the historical context from BITD when people used all manner of ropes in doubles/halfs mode and things get even weirder.

 

But first up I'd say that, with today's [ultra] skinny ropes (like Metolius 7.8mm half/twin rated ropes), you probably want to toe the line pretty damn close to the recommendations of use in each modality or things might be dicey as Jon H suggests above. Ditto for ice applications. From there it gets a bit fuzzier from my perspective - though I agree it's a bad idea to mix modes relative to clipping protocols on a single pitch - either use them as doubles/halfs or as twins on a pitch, don't mix modes.

 

In rock climbing there are a number of reasons for using two ropes. In places like Red Rock people use twins to not have to carry or drag a second rap line; doubles/halfs get used a lot at crags where routes often wander around; and I use doubles/halfs on FAs and lines where I know some stretches might or do involve razor edges that can slice your rope in a fall. In that latter case I've climbed with various combos - actual double/half rated ropes, doubled 9.8 single ropes, doubled 9.8 / 10.2 single ropes. BITD we sometimes used goldline or 11mm ropes as doubles/halfs.

 

The quality of the placements also very much plays into how fast and loose you can play with things as well. Better toe the protocol line again if you are free climbing over screamered micro pro, whereas you have some wiggle room if the pro is bomb. Overall - and like most of climbing - it's a matter of skill, experience, and judgment. Don't have much? Then better toe the line and learn recommended standards, protocols, and best practices. You've developed deep skills and broad experience? Then you can start exercising your own judgment and bending the rules on a situation-by-situation basis.

[montypiton]

Well said, Joe! If you feel you have to get a second opinion, then you'd best follow the printed directions...