kevbone Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 I suppose it is all about who you ask. Jim taught me 15 years ago that a + next to 5.0-5.9 means every move is that grade. Like Cruzin for example. I think that is a good explanation for the + when use on climbs graded 5.0-5.9. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 i guess kev thinks it's barely 5.9, but we all know he's jacked) Â Â Â Not barely....it is 5.9. Not harder. And yes....I am jacked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephH Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 I suppose it is all about who you ask. Jim taught me 15 years ago that a + next to 5.0-5.9 means every move is that grade. Like Cruzin for example. I think that is a good explanation for the + when use on climbs graded 5.0-5.9. Not really - it wasn't something that varied from person to person - you've just been had by another Opdyckian troll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Regardless of what Jim told me, that is what I believe. It makes sence to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 what is sence? is that like sensai or master? Â Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hemp22 Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 this seems like it's kind of going downhill already - but back on the original question: I haven't personally lead those climbs, but a friend who has climbed all the 12s there has described them as soft. So, there - I can't help you invalidate your 5.12 redpoints myself, but I can give you ambiguous 2nd-person hearsay for you to make up your own mind about... Â I've only been on a couple 11s at Ozone, and I'd say my experience there was 50/50. Even some of the 9s and 10s are soft compared to across the river, or up the river (some, but not all). I don't climb there enough to remember the names of the routes, so I can't give more specifics. Â I guess I'd say that an Ozone climb being graded on par with broughton/beacon would be the exception, not the rule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_sowerby Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 so your friend has climbed "all" the .12's at Ozone? or all the .12a's ?? Is 'Angle' soft? or 'Grace' or 'Dark Lord'? I agree 'Humbling/Crumbling' are a little soft, but no softer than 'Kashmir'. There are 'easy' 12a's and 'hard' ones, that's what makes grading arguments/discussions so entertaining - and mostly a waste of time :-) ----------------david Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 There are 'easy' 12a's and 'hard' ones, that's what makes grading arguments/discussions so entertaining - and mostly a waste of time :-) ----------------david  Well put Dave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 There is really nothing harder than 5.10+ or V2... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 ...except B3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hemp22 Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 so your friend has climbed "all" the .12's at Ozone? or all the .12a's ?? Is 'Angle' soft? or 'Grace' or 'Dark Lord'? I agree 'Humbling/Crumbling' are a little soft, but no softer than 'Kashmir'. There are 'easy' 12a's and 'hard' ones, that's what makes grading arguments/discussions so entertaining - and mostly a waste of time :-) ----------------david Did I mention this was 2nd hand information? I wasn't there. But yes, as described to me, it was All of them. I don't know the names of most of them, but I know 'Angle of the dangle' was one of them. the comment was just in general - we didn't talk specific about which routes in particular were stiffer or softer. Â I agree with you - every little crag has it's own general/average feel for whether grades are soft or stiff, but even within every little crag, there are some than are soft for the crag, and some that are stiff for the crag. Â Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_sowerby Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 The problem with grading of course is that it's subjective - it's how hard it feels to you. Having a good /bad day? Is the route just your style, or not? Easier if you're tall? So many factors. All these lead to 'soft' and 'hard' routes at the same grade. Routes should (and occasionly do) get regraded if they're way out of line, but if they're close (half a letter grade?) we don't usually bother and gladly accept the higher grade :-) After all we all know that the harder you climb the better person you are - right? It would be informative if your friend had said 'which' routes he was referring to and which 'routes' he was comparing them to. Then I could either agree or disagree. Of course at stated before it is after all pretty pointless - but who can resist the fun? :-) --------------david Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lodestone Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 There are so many routes at broughton and Madrone that hardly get done anymore because they aren't fully bolted or are a bit spooky that and so now they are covered with moss - it would be a shame to see the above routes suffer the same fate. Â Â Â Isn't Madrone supposed to be getting left alone? Â Chad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 Â Â Isn't Madrone supposed to be getting left alone? Â Chad ya gotta climb there occasionally just to chase off the hordes spray-painting ht erock and fucking their cousins, no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jibby Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 My friends and I all came down one weekend and tried all of the 5.12a's in the guide plus most of the harder routes currently put up. The .12a's seemed pretty soft to me due to there one move wonder rating, complete no-hands rest scattered through out the route softens the grade. The 5.12b was maybe just a hair soft. The dark lord 5.12d was accurate though. There was certainly a jump from the 5.12a's to the upper 12s. the area is pretty sweet though and I've enjoyed my two trips down there. Â p.s. It could use a good scrubbin, what brushes work best on basalt? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 The .12a's seemed pretty soft to me due to there one move wonder rating, complete no-hands rest scattered through out the route softens the grade. Â If you are referring to The Crumbling.....I agree about the no hands rest. When Jason did the FA, the no hand rest had not been found yet. He did not use it. I would agree with the 12.a grade if you dont use it (or even harder). Glad you had fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_sowerby Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 this is kind of funny in a thread on how soft the routes are at Ozone - "Dark Lord" is only rated 12c, not 12d :-). Glad you enjoyed the routes --------david Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billcoe Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Isn't Madrone supposed to be getting left alone?  Chad  Yes, and if there is a single accident before the park opens, or the authorities get upset at people trespassing: it is possible that this area may go away forever and all that hard work is flushed away.  If any of you love the area, and you know of a buddy saying they went there, please guide them in this matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Off_White Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 However, the authorities have been taking funds for Madrone out of the budget for years now. Hasn't rational discussion yielded little to no progress, or have I misunderstood? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 However, the authorities have been taking funds for Madrone out of the budget for years now. Hasn't rational discussion yielded little to no progress, or have I misunderstood? indeed - the standard rules for breaking the law apply curently - primarily: don't get caught & don't brag about it on the interwebs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crimper Posted November 5, 2009 Author Share Posted November 5, 2009 counterpoint: if the humbling and crumbling were both rated 11c, a lot of people would be calling them sandbags, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crimper Posted November 5, 2009 Author Share Posted November 5, 2009 as for madrone: the rules for fight club apply. there are crags to spray about, and crags to not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
area51 Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 David S made a good point about assigning a grade, that if you are having a good day, it may seem a bit easy; an off day and its a bit hard. So to really get a good feel for a routes difficulty, you need to climb it a bunch over time. Â Just sending a route once makes ones opinion a bit less robust imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimmo Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 the way to properly assign a grade to a route is to wire it ruthlessly, solo it, then grade it. you know, like they did in the olden days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 you know, like they did in the olden days. i thought that way was just to do it once and call it 5.9 A2? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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