abject & utter depression

[ivan]

after 6 months and 6 1/2 thousand pages i just finished the forever to be unfinished aubrey-maturin series - what in the fuck am i going to do for brain-food for the rest of my life? after a few thousand pages you just kinda start relying on it to be there 'till the end of days...

 

hella'sweet reads, if'n you're ever in the mood - the creme de creme was "desolation island" i think, a badass read even if you don't want to trouble w/ the whole series

 

on the plus side, my consumption of wine, which skyrocketed from practically nil to an average of near 9 liters a week for the past half year, oughta revert to something like normal

 

reckon i could always take on the horation hornblower books, but somehow that title seems too ghey even for me

 

i shall now meself to sleep

[Alpinfox]

my consumption of wine, which skyrocketed from practically nil to an average of near 9 liters a week for the past half year...

 

sweet jesus.

[ivan]

my consumption of wine, which skyrocketed from practically nil to an average of near 9 liters a week for the past half year...

 

sweet jesus.

and don't i wish he was around more - water is, afterall, far cheaper

 

god bless the 5 liter box! and in hindsight, 9 lt/week might be a low-ball estimate - seem to recall 3 boxes in a week on occasions at least i learned some groovy lingo...

[STP]

Is this...

 

similar to this?

Pot-smoking teen says he lit up to make a point

 

[ivan]

similiar? sure. the same? hardly. quang duc sacrificied his life, this kid at most his liberty for a few weeks. the cause of pot legalization, though near n' dear to my heart, is hardly as august and respectable as quang's either.

 

okay - maybe i can read hornblower - the youtube episode i just watched ain't bad

[STP]

similiar? sure. the same? hardly. quang duc sacrificied his life, this kid at most his liberty for a few weeks. the cause of pot legalization, though near n' dear to my heart, is hardly as august and respectable as quang's either.

 

Regarding self-immolation, as Bill Ayers states in Fugitive Days, "You could not be a moral person with the means to act, and stand still. [...] To stand still was to choose indifference. Indifference was the opposite of moral."

[billcoe]

Get the 2 vol set of John Tolands "Rising Sun", fill that glass and go sit in the sun while reading. Your blues will disappear and you will be re-engaged.

 

ps, which works do you still have and how much will you sell the old ones for?

[bradleym]

neal stephenson's baroque cycle might be just what you need. about 3g's if memory serves and an extra 500 or so if you read cryptonomicon first.

[JayB]

similiar? sure. the same? hardly. quang duc sacrificied his life, this kid at most his liberty for a few weeks. the cause of pot legalization, though near n' dear to my heart, is hardly as august and respectable as quang's either.

 

Regarding self-immolation, as Bill Ayers Ted Kaczynski states in Fugitive Days "Industrial Society and Its Future," "You could not be a moral person with the means to act, and stand still. [...] To stand still was to choose indifference. Indifference was the opposite of moral."

 

Arguments like Ayers' self-justifying pap fall short in liberal societies where essential freedoms like freedom of speech and assembly have robust institutional protections and citizens have the capacity to effect political changes through voting and a gazillion other legal, non-violent means.

 

 

[dberdinka]

Mommy? Why does daddy keep falling down?

[ivan]

ps, which works do you still have and how much will you sell the old ones for?

i stole my dad's collection, as he enjoys spending money so much and i'm a flagrant hobo - it's a beautiful collection - 5 giant hardbound volumns w/ phatty built-in bookmarks - continous page #'ing so you get the sick thrill of being on page 4793 (and realing you have a couple k to go ) the 21st book 8-ball died only 1/4 of the way into the story, and as he wrote everything long-hand and had only had half of it transcribed, the final bit is a facsimile (whihc reminds me how much i never learned to read or write cursive properly in 3rd grade ) i'm planning on hanging onto them long term as its the kind of series where you can pick them up and reread any portion and it all still works (got totally wasted w/ corvallisclimber one night and found meself too befuddled to process new material, but rereading old stuff was twice the fun!)

 

anyhow, i'll trade ya for a bit bill - you know, take a big wall rack wortha gear till you're done?

[John Frieh]

For Ivan: :puke:

[olyclimber]

don't worry, hornblower is dongtastic macho reading material.

[ivan]

 

Arguments like Ayers' self-justifying pap fall short in liberal societies where essential freedoms like freedom of speech and assembly have robust institutional protections and citizens have the capacity to effect political changes through voting and a gazillion other legal, non-violent means.

 

i can't think of anything in life i'd be willing to set meself on fire for (having already accidentally done so in the scouts while vandalizing the troop flags pretty well scratched that itch - the smell of one's own flesh almsot ruins you for the 4th of july!)

[ivan]

For Ivan: :puke:

some people really need a hobby, eh? do you think the religion of alpinism could save this lost soul? she appears tauntaun-ready, fo'shizzle!

[JayB]

after 6 months and 6 1/2 thousand pages i just finished the forever to be unfinished aubrey-maturin series - what in the fuck am i going to do for brain-food for the rest of my life? after a few thousand pages you just kinda start relying on it to be there 'till the end of days...

 

hella'sweet reads, if'n you're ever in the mood - the creme de creme was "desolation island" i think, a badass read even if you don't want to trouble w/ the whole series

 

on the plus side, my consumption of wine, which skyrocketed from practically nil to an average of near 9 liters a week for the past half year, oughta revert to something like normal

 

reckon i could always take on the horation hornblower books, but somehow that title seems too ghey even for me

 

i shall now meself to sleep

 

I'll be in Portland for the weekend and can drop off all 11 volumes and 8-10K pages worth of the Durant's "Story of Civilization" series if you want to keep the binge going.

 

Read "The Age of Voltaire" from the series back in ~96 and enjoyed it so much that I picked up the rest of the collection when I could find them as used bookstores. Just unearthed them from storage after the Homeric 10-year WA-->CO-->WA-->MA-->NZ-->WA migration cycle and have some other stuff in the queue at the moment.

[ivan]

 

I'll be in Portland for the weekend and can drop off all 11 volumes and 8-10K pages worth of the Durant's "Story of Civilization" series if you want to keep the binge going.

 

Read "The Age of Voltaire" from the series back in ~96 and enjoyed it so much that I picked up the rest of the collection when I could find them as used bookstores. Just unearthed them from storage after the Homeric 10-year WA-->CO-->WA-->MA-->NZ-->WA migration cycle and have some other stuff in the queue at the moment.

hey, i'll always take free books, but i'm afraid you'd likely throw your back out trying to cart so much crap down here

 

hadn't heard of that series so googled it - i liked this quote:

“Moslems seem to have been better gentlemen than their Christian peers; they kept their word more frequently, showed more mercy to the defeated, and were seldom guilty of the brutality as marked the Christian capture of Jerusalem in 1099.” (p.341)

 

i think what really made me like obrian's books was the historical fiction aspect - a ton of real historical content that i was generally familiar with, but specifically ignorant of, combined with a tide of foreign terms and lingo that demanded a conscious effort to learn (i had to buy a specialized naval dictionary) took the sting out of the fact that it was, in the end, mere fiction. i've usually been a non-fiction guy, but i felt like i was learning most of the time w/ obrian. it's also great for stuffing vittles down your face to as well, since the author has a near autistic fetish in continously describing the eating and drinking that underscores every ritual of naval life (and who wouldn't want to eat a drowned baby, soused hog's face, plum duff, or a spotted dick!?!)

[JayB]

Loaners, my man, loaners. They're still on the to-read list, but realistically it'll be a while before they're on deck. The cartage is no problem, since I'll be lugging down a kayak and some fly-fishing gear for the weekend, but you'd have to swear on the plaster-of-paris-with-wine-spouting-stigmata that I'd be able to get them back when you've finished with them.

 

If you're hurting for an immediate fix to fill the lurch, take a look at the preface to Johnson's dictionary. While in Australia my wife and I spent some time staying with a confirmed bibliophile who, naturally had a copy of Johnson's dictionary on his shelves, and I whiled away a very enjoyable morning reading through it.

 

http://andromeda.rutgers.edu/~jlynch/Texts/preface.html

[olyclimber]

But Ivan, only read them because you want to...don't bother if its because you have to.

[JosephH]

Ivan, when's your last day at school...?

[STP]

Regarding self-immolation, as Bill Ayers Ted Kaczynski states in Fugitive Days "Industrial Society and Its Future," "You could not be a moral person with the means to act, and stand still. [...] To stand still was to choose indifference. Indifference was the opposite of moral."

 

Well, that’s just one statement by Ayers that, in principle, one could agree with although it does not justify his particular course of action of criminality. But the real question is what is more criminal?

 

Now, I condemn violence as the solution because most commonly there is a corresponding backlash that does not address the aggrieving condition but instead serves to perpetuate it. Governments have been accused of actually inviting these actions as an excuse to clamp down; something called the “strategy of tension”.

 

I do, however, question the assumption that only legal, non-violent means are necessary in all cases involving liberal societies where essential liberties are publicly proclaimed. Sometimes society requires a nudge in a particular direction. For instance, civil disobedience requires breaking the law to show others the injustice of a particular societal framework.

 

Now also, what is violent depends to some extent on who is making that determination. If the authority structure is threatened by direct action then most likely that action will be defined as violent, therefore, it is aberrant and pathological. Paradoxically though, sickness can be a way to a higher health. But you’re right; the common man should stick to the tried and true ways of seeking and maintaining a virtuous society.

[prole]

Arguments like Ayers' self-justifying pap fall short in liberal societies where essential freedoms like freedom of speech and assembly have robust institutional protections and citizens have the capacity to effect political changes through voting and a gazillion other legal, non-violent means.

 

Yeah, just ask Fred Hampton!

[JosephH]

Where do payday loan shark joints and 500% interest fall in terms of criminality, [economic] violence, and virtuous society?

[crackers]

uh, read them again. I've read the whole series at least four times (it was a long time overseas...), and the highlight books as many as fourteen times each.

 

Hornblower will feel cheap.

 

How about Fernand Braudel's "The Mediterranean..." and Gibbon's "The rise and fall of the roman empire"?

 

They're both crap in terms of historical accuracy, but fun to read.

 

John, thanks. that link grossed my shit out.

[JayB]

Regarding self-immolation, as Bill Ayers Ted Kaczynski states in Fugitive Days "Industrial Society and Its Future," "You could not be a moral person with the means to act, and stand still. [...] To stand still was to choose indifference. Indifference was the opposite of moral."

 

Well, that’s just one statement by Ayers that, in principle, one could agree with although it does not justify his particular course of action of criminality. But the real question is what is more criminal?

 

Now, I condemn violence as the solution because most commonly there is a corresponding backlash that does not address the aggrieving condition but instead serves to perpetuate it. Governments have been accused of actually inviting these actions as an excuse to clamp down; something called the “strategy of tension”.

 

I do, however, question the assumption that only legal, non-violent means are necessary in all cases involving liberal societies where essential liberties are publicly proclaimed. Sometimes society requires a nudge in a particular direction. For instance, civil disobedience requires breaking the law to show others the injustice of a particular societal framework.

 

Now also, what is violent depends to some extent on who is making that determination. If the authority structure is threatened by direct action then most likely that action will be defined as violent, therefore, it is aberrant and pathological. Paradoxically though, sickness can be a way to a higher health. But you’re right; the common man should stick to the tried and true ways of seeking and maintaining a virtuous society.

 

If we were confining our discussion to abstractions, there's quite a bit of what you've written that I might agree with.

 

However, the fact that we're talking about concrete realities here means that I have to confess that I don't think that it's possible to mount a defense of Ayers by reference to non-existent infringements of his liberties that he wasn't actually subject to. Much less with recourse to considerations of how governments that he wasn't living under might distort the meaning of the word "violence" to include virtually any action that they pleased. Ditto for equating non-violent civil disobedience with anything that would satisfy conventional definitions of violence.

 

We're talking about a white, college educated baby-boomer living in the US in the 1970's here. Ayers had recourse to the full spectrum of constitutionally protected rights and liberties, which were more than sufficient to enable him and others like minded folks make their case and persuade the public to adopt their beliefs, policy ambitions, etc as their own and vote accordingly. These liberties weren't merely proclaimed, they were matters of political fact.

 

The fact that they opted for physical violence was a frank concession of the fact that they saw an uncrossable gulf between what they wanted and what they could persuade their fellow citizens to support. I'm not sure if planting bombs was a sincere attempt to bridge that chasm with violence, or simply a violent temper-tantrum directed at a society that refused to do as he told.

 

His primary claim to virtue, so far as I can tell, is the fact that he didn't personally kill anyone and it's debatable whether mercy or ineptitude played the greater role in that, IMO.