tele skiing

[rperitore]

Wondering if there's anyone out there who wouldn't mind spending a day with a newbie to tele.

I've been skiing (alpine) my whole life and want to learn how to tele. Don't anticipate it being that difficult but would like to spend a day with someone to get the basics.

Thanks

Ross

[Lambone]

"Not afraid are you.....ohhh you will be....you will be...." Yoda

Hey, my girl is also just learning to tele. I been showin her the ropes, so to speak.We got passes to Steven and should be up there once or twice a week this year. If you wan't some one to ski with I'll trade a lesson for a beer in the lodge! Send me a P.M. when the season roles around. Have fun!

[forrest_m]

afraid... should be and shouldn't be... my experience is that very experienced alpine skiers seldom have much trouble getting down the hill on tele skis, but learning to tele... much harder. the problem is that paramarking works fine in most area conditions. it's only in softer, off-piste conditions that it's a recipie for face-plants.

[philfort]

quote:

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Originally posted by forrest_m:

harder. the problem is that paramarking works fine in most area conditions. it's only in softer, off-piste conditions that it's a recipie for face-plants.

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What's paramarking? Is that parallel turns on tele skis? That works fine in deep snow...but if that's all you wanted to do, why tele?

[AlpineK]

Exactly!! Why telemark?! Oh wait you must want to be more in touch with nature.

[ScottP]

quote:

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Originally posted by AlpineK:

Exactly!! Why telemark?! Oh wait you must want to be more in touch with nature.

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You're anger toward somethng that is alien to your experience is manifesting itself as bad sarcasm. A round of beers with some Hippie Dippin' bretheren will put your soul at ease my friend. Seek out the relief from what ales you.

[EddieE]

AlpineK - If you have to ask...

Whoever else - I'm always looking for ski buds!

[ 10-28-2001: Message edited by: EddieE ]

[AlpineK]

Hey man I'm embarrassed to admit I've telemarked a little, but it was back in college and it was just a phase. I never bought tele gear though. We all have our moral failings. I'm just trying to help people in their moment of crisis.

[Juneriver]

Ok, I'm going to show my ignorance of skiing now.

I have alpine skied alot in the past but not in the last few years. Now I'm reallly getting tired of trudging on an approach or in the backcountry on my snowshoes while guys are flying by on their skis.

So, I, too, have been considering trying to learn.

My stupid question is this... What are all the differences in the ski gear? What do I need for simple approaches and backcountry skiing?What is the difference if any between cross-country, AT, Touring, Randonee, and Backcountry ski gear? Excuse my ignorance... If there is a web resource, just point me there.

Thanks.

[ 10-29-2001: Message edited by: Juneriver ]

[mikeadam]

Amar's site is a primo online resource. Learn to ski trap crust and heavy crud or don't expect to be "flying" down anything unless it's on your back or in an eggbeater fashion. I know. Good luck!

http://www.skimountaineer.com/

[Alex]

"My stupid question is this... What are all the differences in the ski gear? What do I need for simple approaches and backcountry skiing?What is the difference if any between cross-country, AT, Touring, Randonee, and Backcountry ski gear?"

Juneriver, your question is not a stupid one, here are the answers:

Alpine skiing: heels locked down to the ski always when skiing downhill. Skis and equipment tend to be heavier, skis have full metal edges

There are several Alpine ski equipment choices for climbers and backcountry skiiers -

standard: the stuff you see at ski areas all the time Randonee/AT (Alpine Touring): special bindings that can be "unlocked" to permit travel uphill. The boot is still locked into the binding, but the binding is not locked to the ski in the back. Hardcore AT people will also have special AT boots, not standard downhill ski boots, that make walking much easier

Telemark skiing: heels are not locked down to ski downhill. Skis are heavier with full metal edges.

There is a wide variety of equipment, depending on your goals

Cross Country skiing: heels not locked down to ski downhill, but skis are lighter, narrower, and only sport a half-metal edge, if any edge at all. Not designed for long downhill runs, they are, rather (as the name implies) designed for aerobic travel across the flats

If your goal is utilitarian (approach climbs) and you have alpine skiing experience, Randonee/AT gear is where you should look. If your goal is to learn something new because you are intensely bored with alpine skiing, Telemark may be for you, though it is not easy to learn. If your goal is to get a GREAT workout and skip the whole downhill freak scene, Cross Country is what you should check out

Alex

[max]

Alex: nice synopsis. I'd like to add one thing.

It is much easier to ski in AT gear with plastic boots than it is to climb (not "skin" climb...) in teleboots. So it seems reasonable that if you want to use your skiing setup to approach ice, winter climbs, or quicken up volcanoe slogs, AT shoud recieve extra attention.

One last thing: don't let snobbery on induce you to choose one over the other. I think you'll find that there is a significant amount of it floating around the ski scene! I just laugh at them!

[David_Parker]

I'm with Alex in that you should ask yourself why you want to tele. If it is just to make approaches and getting out easier for alpine climbing, I agree, Randonee makes more sense. If you want to learn the purest form of skiing, then tele is it. I alpined skiied from age 4 to 24 before I took up tele and now I exclusively tele whether at a resort or in the back country. I should clarify by saying I use tele boots and my heels are never locked down. I parallel on hard groomed runs and sometimes in deep powder. The new tele equipment is very far from the original or even that of the mid 80's to mid 90's. I still use "beefy" leather boots (Merrill Super comps.) I have not made the switch to plastic (Scarpa or Garmont) but it will be inevitable because it is getting difficult to even find leather tele boots. Ski swap may be the best bet. The old school was still long skinny skis, even though they had alpine ski characteristics like metal edges and single camber. I started putting tele bindings on lightweight alpine skis in the early 90's before the tele ski companys offered wider skis. My skiing was much more fun! The transition to beefy boots came naturally because to drive the wider skis in NW crud took more beef! I still shop at ski swaps for alpine skis to tele on. My priorities in selection are:, length, weight, flex, sidecut, torsional rigidity. Generally wider skis can/should be shorter but I think too short sucks. I think a lot of the new shaped tele skis are still too heavy and salesmen push too short! I also found I don't like too much shape. They want to keep turning when I'm ready to go back the other way.

I wouldn't assume learning tele is "easy" even with a lot of alpine experience. Certainly it helps, but you will be learning to ski again! If you don't know the exact balance point to stand on skis, you will find out quickly! Expect to fall a lot. I would not make your first turns in the backcountry either. Go to a resort and try it out on moderate groomers. Then work up from there. A few tips....be compact and don't do the feet as far as part (forward/back) as possible thing, but do get down. The steeper it is the more down you should be. Don't lean in (any ski racer knows this). It's a lot more hip action.. keep your body facing down the fall line. Don't double pole plant!!! Really bad form and will promote bad habits. Keep in mind you will be much less likely to be getting your skis off the ground in a turn so moguls take on a whole new meaning!

Tele skiers are really friendly and love to hook up with other tele skiers. I often go alone to resorts and within a few rides on the chairlift hook up with someone. Alpenthal has great tele skiers and you can try out the backcountry easily. When you get good, you'll love lapping the boarders flailing on the traverses!

The only drawback I have not figured out is doing serious alpine climbs with a tele approach. For example, N. Face Chair peak in winter. I want the tele gear for in/out but definitely not tele boots for the climb. I suppose this is where randonee would be superior unless I carry in different boots (which is what I did.) Nothing is perfect!

Don't go in the backcountry until you've had an avalanche course or are with someone experienced. Don't think shovel and beacons make things safer. They don't and you should think of them as tools for body recovery.

I'm happy to meet anyone for tele skiing.

ski ya later

[Juneriver]

Right on! Thanks for the help.One more question.Since I'm already invested into climbing, mountain biking and adventure racing... and hopefully an entry into ice climbing this year, I don't even dare to talk to the wife about new skis. I'm not rich, or so I'm reminded when ever I bring up my ice tool wish list.

So my question is, for a rank beginner trying to make do, can I use my old downhill skis to start out? This is mostly utilitarian and for approaches.

I have some late 80's higher-end K2's that I could slap some Randonee or Tele bindings and skins on. Or is that just a dumb idea?

Thanks again.

[ 10-29-2001: Message edited by: Juneriver ]

[Matt]

Juneriver,

Old down hill skis make great tele skis! GS skis might be a little stiff and make it hard for you to carve. Long slalom skis are perfect for telemarking. If you use alpine skis for telemarking you should look into getting "risers." They will put space between your bindings and your skis, allowing you to lean the ski over and turn without dragging the side of your tele binding/boot in the snow. These are especially useful when using alpine boards because tele boots and bindings are often wider than the ski. On hardpack the edge of your boot can actually pry you ski edge off the snow in the middle of a turn. Tele skis are often thicker in the middle to avoid this problem, while downhill boards are thinner (as measured from the wax side of the ski to the top of the ski). Risers are cheap.

Last week I pulled up behind a Toyota pick up with a bumper sticker on it that said:

randonee: French for "can't tele"

[David_Parker]

First, give me specifics of these K2's or what ever else you are thinking. You may want lighter skis. I may have something for you from my quiver of old skis. How tall and how much do you weigh and what type of alpine skier are you, intermediate or expert?

If the skis are wide enough, you don't need risers. Most alpine skis are fine with out risers except maybe really thin ones or the new shaped ones. I would stay away from risers until you become an expert tele skier. Unless you are traversing a 45 deg. slope or cranking a racing turn, you shouldn't have a problem.

I also think GS skis are better than slalom skis. They tend to have a more even flex and softer tip. Generally speaking, slalom skis dive in the powder. You don't need a racing ski. I've found advanced rec alpine skis work great for tele skiing. The only thing I give up in a rec ski is torsional rigidity which is what you need on super hard pack/ice. But if you're on that shit, who cares about tele turns unless you're a tele racer.

Ski swaps are a great place to get bargains. I have never paid more than $75 for skis! Save your money for good tele boots or ice tools.

I want that bumper sticker!!!

my $.02!!

[Colin]

Why does everyone in Afganistan ski with fixed heels?

The Teleban.

[ 10-29-2001: Message edited by: Colin ]

[AlpineK]

The cheapest thing to do if your strapped for cash is to get a pair of Alpine Treckers. They fit in the downhill bindings you already have, and allow you to hike uphill. If you like it then you can start getting AT gear a bit at a time. You could start with just the bindings.

If you haven't skied a lot in the BC learning to ski different snow conditions and avalanche prediction is hard enough without learning a new turn. Why spend time being a beginer when you can ski the same stuff you already do.

Tele isn't anymore,"pure," than alpine. I've noted also that Tele gear is a lot more prone to break too.

Telemark french for, "Hey guys wait for me."

[Beck]

Lots of cash strapped pinheads have been screwing three pins onto alpine boards for the last 15 years or so, there's no reason you can't take some alpine boards, make a fifty dollar bargain basement investment into some cable bindings, and be doing tele turns in rented boots for pretty cheap- and I think I heard you right, you stated you DID want to learn how to tele?

It's is the true bliss of the glisse that sets tele apart- sometimes a step behind, but singular in it simplicity; you never change the configuration of bindings, you ski with a form that isn't predicated by changing binding style, clipping in, or going from snowshoe to snowboard-

it's also the way modern skiing evolved, on free heel equipment- Sondre Nordheim from Telemark ring a bell with anyone? Snowshoe Thompson of the Sierra Nevadas postal service? Or the first organized skiing events and clubs in America? Free Heelers, all.

[Lambone]

Alpine Trekkers = Bullshit

[fern]

quote:

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Originally posted by lambone:

Alpine Trekkers = Bullshit

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no kidding, talk about prone to breakage. you'd be better spending those Alpine Trekker $$$ on snowshoes and carrying the alpine skis on your back in my opinion.

[dr._jay]

free your heels and free your mind!

[fern]

fix your heels, fix your problems

[Norm]

I've noted also that Tele gear is a lot more prone to break too.

What chou talkin bout Willis?????

Although I've broken every friggin' tele binding out there in one fashion or another, with the two exceptions (splitting a Riva II plate and ripping a rainy out of the skis, both done in area) I've been able to duct tape/ bailiing wire/ spare cable my way into salvaging a good ski day. Partners half my weight have demolished their randonee bindings and had to limp out on one ski or worse.

Tele bindings are more simply constructed and are therefore more easily field repaired. If you big and ski hard buy stainless high bail tele bindings, but beware of the old model rainys because the construction is crap.

"Perhaps I'm culturally stereotyping, but I'd think that being French you of all people would appreciate doing something solely for it's aesthetic value" -My responce to a Frenchman who was flipping me shit for teleskiing in the Alps

[David_Parker]

AlpineK wrote:

Tele isn't anymore,"pure," than alpine. I've noted also that Tele gear is a lot more prone to break too.

Telemark french for, "Hey guys wait for me." **************************************************Alpine, Personally I don't think ski lifts and ski resorts make skiing more "pure". Where else do you ski? And, so if we aren't at a ski area using lifts, who's waiting for who?

I skiied "alpine" for 20 years and it got booooooooooring! Maybe you should try it before you diss it. Personally, I like the versitility it offers. I don't have to look at the untracked bowl and wish I were in it. I am in it, at least before you! I guess in my older age, skiing has become like sex. I want quality over quantity!!!

And when we're out 10 miles and your bindings break, who's gonna be spending the night?

The only thing I ever broke tele skiing were my tibias. Sure beats blowing out an acl. At least my ski career isn't over.