Bugaboos access restrictions & via ferrata

[Hugh Conway]

http://www.access-society.ca/regions/kootenays/areas/bugaboo-provincial-park

 

Bugaboo Provincial Park is currently conducting a survey that asks users and those with vested interest in the Park questions about usage. The Survey also elicits opinions about two controversial proposals for the park.

 

1. A Via Ferrata. To avoid having climbers ascend and descend the snow/ice slope leading to the Bugaboo-Snowpatch Col, the Park has proposed a Via Ferrata, which would ascend to the left of the col along the base of Tom Egan Memorial Wall on Snowpatch Spire.

 

2. Access Restriction. Concerned with overcrowding, the Park is considering capping the user rates.

[Winter]

via ferrata - more yahoos with more accidents and less adventure and wildness.

[genepires]

via ferrata would bring more people and then need more restrictions. The col is a natural-made restriction for people without snow climbing skills.

 

Sad that it is getting that crowded there. The weather must be getting better.

[Gary_Yngve]

They need to stop helicoptering people in to be guided up WR Pigeon.

[mattp]

Sad that it is getting that crowded there. The weather must be getting better.

 

Maybe someone with hard numbers will show me wrong but I was there the summer before last and it did not seem any more crowded than when I first went there 30 years ago. I don't think it is really unreasonably crowded there.

[ken4ord]

1. No, if you can't climb snow steps, you probably can't climb a ladder. Also would this increase usage of that passage, which question 2 is addressing?

 

2. No, the season so short there and it currently seems to be managed quite well. I didn't see much trash out and about, no feeces about, but a little errosion issue but nothing major. Granted some of the climbs are quite crowded and I would love to have them all to myself, but not at the cost of increasing difficulty of gaining access.

[Reilly]

What you guys don't understand is that numbers aren't the issue here bureaucracy is. The whole raison d'etre of bureaucracy is to ensure the existence and continued growth of the beast. If the 'numbers' aren't there rest assured they will soon be, at least on paper, or a new 'issue' will be created to fill the void. Rampant unchecked bureaucracy is what brought down the Soviet Union and it is having its way with western democracies as the current financial situation shows.

 

Canada is worse than the US in this regard. The only way to combat it is to fight it like the cancer it is; you have to cut off the blood/cash-flow. The only two ways to achieve this is at the ministerial level, which is highly unlikely, or the appropriations level. Stop funding the cancer and it withers. There is no other known therapy. The trouble is how do you get to the MP's? Parks Canada is "only in it for the good of the environment and the people". How are you going to rip that Maple Leaf shroud off to reveal the naked king beneath? I don't think you are unless the CAC has some heavy hitters who can do battle on the ministerial level.

 

I could go on but I'm just glad I got to enjoy the Bugs 'back in the day'; went to the far side of the Howsers (early ascent of Chouinard-Beckey and maybe first clean) and back without seeing a soul! Maybe it is my incipient Alzheimers but all I recall of the Snowpatch-Bugaboo Col is a snow slog; was I missing something?

Edited December 23, 2008 by Reilly

[dberdinka]

Maybe it is my incipient Alzheimers but all I recall of the Snowpatch-Bugaboo Col is a snow slog; was I missing something?

 

The global warming has altered conditions so that some summers the snow slog is black ice and debris covered slabs.

 

Via Ferrata is still ghey IMHO.

Edited December 23, 2008 by dberdinka

[Reilly]

So what is this 'via Ferrata', some sort of escalator they want to build? Or is it non-slip tape for the slabs? What kind of people go up to the mountains now that can't handle the mountains? What's the point?

[snoboy]

Parks Canada is "only in it for the good of the environment and the people".

 

Parks Canada has nothing to do with this issue, as the Bugaboos are not a national park.

[Reilly]

Well, a bureaucracy is a bureaucracy is a bureaucracy.

[billcoe]

What you guys don't understand is that numbers aren't the issue here bureaucracy is. The whole raison d'etre of bureaucracy is to ensure the existence and continued growth of the beast. If the 'numbers' aren't there rest assured they will soon be, at least on paper, or a new 'issue' will be created to fill the void. Rampant unchecked bureaucracy is what brought down the Soviet Union and it is having its way with western democracies as the current financial situation shows.

 

Canada is worse than the US in this regard. The only way to combat it is to fight it like the cancer it is; you have to cut off the blood/cash-flow. The only two ways to achieve this is at the ministerial level, which is highly unlikely, or the appropriations level. Stop funding the cancer and it withers. There is no other known therapy. The trouble is how do you get to the MP's? Parks Canada is "only in it for the good of the environment and the people". How are you going to rip that Maple Leaf shroud off to reveal the naked king beneath? I don't think you are unless the CAC has some heavy hitters who can do battle on the ministerial level.

 

I could go on but I'm just glad I got to enjoy the Bugs 'back in the day'; went to the far side of the Howsers (early ascent of Chouinard-Beckey and maybe first clean) and back without seeing a soul! Maybe it is my incipient Alzheimers but all I recall of the Snowpatch-Bugaboo Col is a snow slog; was I missing something?

 

On THE FRIGGAN MONEY Reilly! Spot on!

[Fairweather]

What you guys don't understand is that numbers aren't the issue here bureaucracy is. The whole raison d'etre of bureaucracy is to ensure the existence and continued growth of the beast. If the 'numbers' aren't there rest assured they will soon be, at least on paper, or a new 'issue' will be created to fill the void. Rampant unchecked bureaucracy is what brought down the Soviet Union and it is having its way with western democracies as the current financial situation shows.

 

Canada is worse than the US in this regard. The only way to combat it is to fight it like the cancer it is; you have to cut off the blood/cash-flow. The only two ways to achieve this is at the ministerial level, which is highly unlikely, or the appropriations level. Stop funding the cancer and it withers. There is no other known therapy. The trouble is how do you get to the MP's? Parks Canada is "only in it for the good of the environment and the people". How are you going to rip that Maple Leaf shroud off to reveal the naked king beneath? I don't think you are unless the CAC has some heavy hitters who can do battle on the ministerial level.

 

 

Canadian refreshment, and damn well said. There may be a glimmer of hope for us all.

[jpark42]

I say no the Via Ferreta because that will bring more people to the park.

[j_b]

Sad that it is getting that crowded there. The weather must be getting better.

 

Maybe someone with hard numbers will show me wrong but I was there the summer before last and it did not seem any more crowded than when I first went there 30 years ago. I don't think it is really unreasonably crowded there.

 

Even if the number of visitors hasn't changed, it may be that current and past use isn't sustainable in the long term.

 

As to the kneejerk "government is the problem" crowd, it is telling that you blow your ideological horn without any specific knowledge of the environmental impact assessment.

 

it goes without saying that a via ferrata isn't warranted.

Edited December 27, 2008 by j_b

[Fairweather]

Even if the number of visitors hasn't changed, it may be that current and past use isn't sustainable in the long term.

 

As to the kneejerk "government is the problem" crowd, it is telling that you blow your ideological horn without any specific knowledge of the environmental impact assessment.

 

 

Maybe you could enlighten us all regarding the manner in which the Canadian and BC governments go about environmental impact assessments? Do they exist? Standards? Physical? Social? I honestly don't know--and I'll bet you don't either (without using your Google-Creds). Hopefully they aren't the same clusterfuck that they are down here--where small but vocal "environmental" groups speak in hushed tones to sympathetic land managers about unannounced public meetings then later claim to represent consensus.

Edited December 28, 2008 by Fairweather

[j_b]

I have no specific knowledge about it but it is most probable there is some kind of environmental impact assessment. Perhaps, you should check before you spew your propaganda. And lay off the wingnut conspiracy theory litterature, it'll do you some good.

[layton]

I hate that f'in col when it's black ice and people are dropping bombs on my head. I wouldn't mind a via feratta. I also think they should limit everyone but me and the quebec girls

[bstach]

How aboot filling in the survey and making your opinions count instead of just spraying about it:

 

http://www.ubc-voc.com/wiki/images/b/b5/Bugaboo_Survey.PDF

 

Edited December 29, 2008 by bstach

[susan]

Sad that it is getting that crowded there. The weather must be getting better.

 

Maybe someone with hard numbers will show me wrong but I was there the summer before last and it did not seem any more crowded than when I first went there 30 years ago. I don't think it is really unreasonably crowded there.

 

Even if the number of visitors hasn't changed, it may be that current and past use isn't sustainable in the long term.

 

As to the kneejerk "government is the problem" crowd, it is telling that you blow your ideological horn without any specific knowledge of the environmental impact assessment.

 

it goes without saying that a via ferrata isn't warranted.

 

 

All I know is that I was there 3 or 4 years ago and there were probably 20 parties at Applebee and this year there were more like 50 parties, and that's not counting the hut or the lower campground. The place was a zoo! My sample of 2 says that yes, it's way more crowded.

[j_b]

Wow! 50 parties at Applebee is a crowd but it is a vastly different experience than that of Mattp. I haven't gone there since the mid-90's but in 4 trips I never saw more than a handfull of people there. I can see why with this many people a via ferrata is considered for Snowpatch Col since most are bound to line up for the Kain and NE buttress routes on Bugaboo. Making access easier rarely seems a viable solution to a crowd problem, unless coupled with limits on user days ...

[ken4ord]

Sad that it is getting that crowded there. The weather must be getting better.

 

Maybe someone with hard numbers will show me wrong but I was there the summer before last and it did not seem any more crowded than when I first went there 30 years ago. I don't think it is really unreasonably crowded there.

 

Even if the number of visitors hasn't changed, it may be that current and past use isn't sustainable in the long term.

 

As to the kneejerk "government is the problem" crowd, it is telling that you blow your ideological horn without any specific knowledge of the environmental impact assessment.

 

it goes without saying that a via ferrata isn't warranted.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

All I know is that I was there 3 or 4 years ago and there were probably 20 parties at Applebee and this year there were more like 50 parties, and that's not counting the hut or the lower campground. The place was a zoo! My sample of 2 says that yes, it's way more crowded.

 

Well this year when I was up at Applebee, there was at least 50 parties there for the week we were there. Yeah a zoo, yeah it sort of sucked waiting in line for the shitter, yeah some people were louder than I would have liked, yeah there was waiting on climbs. At least I was there when there was good weather and we got to climb. I'd much rather have that way than more restriction.

 

What blows worse more rstriction, here is true story New Years day waiting for an office to open trying to get a spot for the following winter for use in a restricted area (Oh yeah the office is 5 hour drive away from where you live). The dates you really want were just taken by the party ahead of you in line, so you get the next best dates. Whew, happy to have at least got the permit to get in you make the 5 hour drive back home. All summer you might ocassionally think about it, but for the most part your out getting in some good rock climbing not thinking about it. Fall comes around and you start thinking about the permits you have and getting siked to climb some remote ice. A week before the trip weather reports look like shit, but you hope for the best. Next week you make 15 mile slog in on skis to get to the hut that you will call home for the week. Weather is shit, there is ice, but avy danger too high to do anything, expect for a short buskwhack skis on flat terrain and skins on. Even if you wanted to take some risks still go for a climb, the ranger is there to stop ya. End of the week comes you load up the sleds and ski 15 miles out with out getting a single pitch of ice in. The next week of course is brillant and you hear tales of many pitchs of ice getting climbed, that you couldn't get on. That sucked! I definitely would have prefered to been on the ice with a bunch people than to have the week I had.

Edited December 31, 2008 by ken4ord