Dan's Dreadful Direct restored

[Cpt.Caveman]

f

 

[ 09-19-2002, 11:09 AM: Message edited by: Cpt.Caveman ]

[slaphappy]

Only out of the 10 or so people who post on this thread, not the community in a whole.

[Cpt.Caveman]

What is done is done. If you want to argue then just send me a vicious email or meet me somewhere........

 

[ 09-19-2002, 11:09 AM: Message edited by: Cpt.Caveman ]

[slaphappy]

Argue? I don't see my comments as argumentative.

[pope]

Slappy Happy: Does it bother me that a guy living in Portland would drive to Leavenworth to chop a route? Answer: Considering the route, considering that Castle Rock has been relatively free of this cowardly form of "climbing", considering that the bolters have had months to come out with their side of the story, and considering that I happen to know they only consulted a small group of sympathetic climbers prior to their act....IT BOTHERS ME THAT THE BOLTS SURVIVED THIS LONG, THAT SOMEBODY FROM PORTLAND HAD TO COME UP HERE AND SET AN EXAMPLE FOR THE ROCK RAPERS WHO CONTINUE TO SHIT ALL OVER LEAVENWORTH ROCK.

All of you who feel upset, who feel like we really needed another line of bolts to clip in Leavenworth...you are invited to top-rope the route. You will find the experience to require similar skills and offer parallel rewards to sport-dogging your way up a bunch of bolts. That way, everybody wins.

[Retrosaurus]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Pencil Pusher:

Retro,

To argue with every Tom, Dick and Harry that doesn't appreciate your bullshit shows just how willing you are to hear the bolter's story. I guess it's pull "warm and fuzzy" with a crowbar first, ask questions later, huh?

No shit they don't step forward in front of a firing squad. They're all guilty as sin according to you, so it really wouldn't be YOU LISTENING TO THEM, now would it?

Wannabe experts all over the damn place.

---

mr penisl puller,

I belive YOU started the name calling "asshole".

My tone is intentionally antagonistic because I am inviting attack. I will argue with anyone with an oppossing view point. It is especially appropriate in a public forum like this. The bolters have the same opportunity to be heard as I do. And if they feel that they are stepping in front of a firing squad, it is because their actions have overwhelming opposition. The bolter's opinions were solicited long before I removed those bolts. Hell, this is the internet. They could defend their actions and remain anonymous.

I did not waste any time stepping in front of the firing squad. I took the first opportunity to do so. It's easy to do when you know you're right. So, take your best shot.

Let's hear some more of your leaky arguements.

Like this one: "the rock is the loser in the end" or "the rock is the one that suffers". As soon as you look at the before and after of bolt placement and bolt removal, this arguement is over.

BTW. The reason I brought up the cost of the crowbar "$8.59 PLUS TAX" is to make the point that it is much more cost effective to remove bolts than it is to place them.

bitchslap,

You must be poling the community at exit 38 or vertical world. This issue is about Castle Rock/ Leavenworth area, one of the oldest crags in the PNW. (Although it should translate to most other climbing areas.)

[nerdom]

Chop every bolt on every route capable of being climbed clean. Leave the bolting to the choss piles.

my $.02

[slaphappy]

No Mr. Sore-ass I do not go to the Vertical World or frequent Exit 38, although the opinions of the people that use those areas, as well as Leavenworth, are every bit as important as yours or mine. We are all part of the same community.

[slaphappy]

quote:

---

Originally posted by nerdom:

Chop every bolt on every route capable of being climbed clean. Leave the bolting to the choss piles.

my $.02

---

Nerdom who decides what is capable and what is not? Retro-sore-ass with his handful of magic wire nuts? I have a friend who is comfortable soloing at a very high level, does that mean that every climb below his soloable grade (10+ish) should not be bolted?

[Rodchester]

If a route was orignally put up as a trad route...it should stay as a trad route.

If a route was put up as a sport route it should stay as a sport route.

[Retrosaurus]

nerdom,

When I find an source for a 48-inch crowbar I'll let you know.

[Pencil_Pusher]

Retro,

Did you ask for the bolter's identities prior to chopping? Did I miss that post? Yeah, I didn't think so.

Instead it was vigilante justice. Would it have been more appropriate to question them first as in:

----------------------------------

New Post DDD

Retro> "What the f_in hell, who put those bolts up there?" or "Duuude, that's a crock of shit, who put those bolts up there?"

"If nobody answers we're going to chop them."

-----------------------------------

??????

Instead it was shoot first, ask questions later. Granted, the bolters didn't do the same for the bolting. However, and maybe I'm in the minority here, some folks don't have computers. I'm only typing now because I'm stuck behind a computer all day at work. At home I have neither a computer nor a TV and don't miss or want either.

Assuming they do have computers though, it would've been a helluva lot more civilized to push the topic first, then announce you're going to chop, and then chop. I'd guess the reason you didn't say you were going to chop beforehand was because YOU WERE JUST AS CHICKENSHIT AS THE BOLTERS WERE.

So next time y'all decide to chop, how about you push the info here, hear everybody hem and haw, and then ANNOUNCE you're going to chop? Same goes with the bolters.

And if you can't do that, how can you expect the bolters to?

To quote another poster, a classic line I enjoy re-reading from him "We'll see who's talking smack now bitch."

 

[Cpt.Caveman]

rr

 

[ 09-19-2002, 11:09 AM: Message edited by: Cpt.Caveman ]

[Paul_C]

Just do me a favour and don't be coming up here to CA and doing the same thing. While I agree with the idea that trad routes should be left as such, up here the group consensus is that whoever puts up the route gets to decide if it is sport or trad. Pretty much any route that can be protected with gear is left that way and anything that can be done as a sport+ is left that way.

While I see your side of things, I think that chopping is very extreme way of dealing with this issue and will most likely lead to bad blood like other areas that have had the same discussion.

Paul

[Cpt.Caveman]

f

 

[ 09-19-2002, 11:10 AM: Message edited by: Cpt.Caveman ]

[Drederek]

So how do we convince those who want some of the danger taken out of a climb that the inherent danger is a vital part of the climb? I would think a climb named "Dan's Dreadful Direct" should be bold. Or what would we think of Dan? I support the actions taken to remove the bolts. I also believe the bolters thought they were doing a good thing. We all have our visions of what climbing means to us. And we all want to pursue our visions. It is hard to pursue your vision and respect everybody elses position at the same time. It takes experience and sometimes trial and error to learn what will fly and what will not. We partake of a very selfish and narcissistic sport where egos abound. Thank God for the differences! D

[LUCKY]

To all the Peaceful Warriors who lurk this

board, THANK YOU. Climbing is what we love

best, without your sport routes, first

ascent cracks, guide books, and continued

devotion to keep climbing safe and fun, we

would be lost. Your continued work is

enjoyed by the climbing community more than

you will ever know.

CLIMB IT ALL

ENJOY IT ALL

LUCKY AND MARY.

[Chongo]

Rapbolting auf Burg wird nächste Zeit bestraft werden.

Sie ertönen Sie irgendeine Art von Peacenik mag sind. Was ist ihr Punkt? Dies aufsteht nicht Woodstock, den dies um jemanden ist, der eine fucking traditionelle Klippe und jetzt der trad Leute verriegelt hat, ist und nimmt Anzeige. Etwas von Ihnen sind Leute wirklich pissing mich ab.

[jon]

Ich werde die Platznadel verriegeln und Plastikeinflüsse vollständig zu setzen oben, bedeute ich, Leute scheine, zu verriegeln, wohin überhaupt sie wünschen, also daß ist, was ich tun werde. Ich bin sicher, daß sie sich nicht kümmern, um wenn ich einige Einflüsse außerdem abbreche. OH-Scheiße, sprühe ich jetzt?

[Lambone]

All right enough of that!

[Retrosaurus]

Oh pencil,

You keep putting your foot in your mouth and your head in your ass. Must taste terrible. But hey, if you don't know any better I guess it's not that bad.

Did we ask the bolters' identities?

Yes, Ray and others did. Made quite a production of it too. I don't know how you missed it. It must be kind of hard to see with your head in that dark smelly recess. Viktor said that he knew the bolters and that he would give them the message. (Viktor, were the bolters notified?)

And another thing. "Chop" is such an ugly word and not very descriptive of what Ray, Will and I did last week for DDD. "Bolt removal" and "route restoration" are much more accurate terms. Except for that 1/2-inch MFer on the bottom of the route. We had to "chop" that one.

But hey, good news! I found the right tool for the job. It's called a Dayton Bar and its 5 feet long! I bet it slips those pesky 1/2-inch bolts out nicely. This little jewel costs 60 bucks though. Anyone want to donate to a good cause?

[pope]

Pencil Meister,

One of the guys who placed the bolts does check in to this site, although I don't think he posts. When the bolts went in, as I'm sure you're aware, a post titled "Bolt Mania" solicited opinions about this action, and a request was made for the bolters to explain their need to bolt DDD. I think Retro went about this in the right way.

How do we decide which bolts are legitimate? One way to do it is look at the tradition of the area. Castle Rock has not suffered at the tip of a drill bit, and many of the people who climb there seem to prefer it this way. Given that so much sport climbing now exists within a ten minute drive of the Castle, maybe we could leave this chunk of rock alone.

Your consideration of these suggestions is appreciated.

[Guest]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Retrosaurus:

Oh pencil,

You keep putting your foot in your mouth and your head in your ass...

---

Hey Retrosaurus, if he can do that I'd think he's a great offwidth climber...

Also, I just had an idea. Have you thought of using a simple car jack? I used to have one, somewhat romboid shaped. With some modifications to hook the raising part to the hanger it could make the job easier. I keep forgetting to look in the closet if I still have it. (this engineer in me...)

[rat]

victor,

gollum's handiwork on das muzak hasn't gone unnoticed. at least that puke had the sense to camoflage the bolts. most here are too blind to see---too much wacking.

[mattp]

Rafael -

I've been wondering about the possibility of using a car jack or similar device for some time. Do you have the means to set one up so that it might be hooked to a sawed off wonder bar or something that could be inserted beneath a hanger or a nut? This might be lighter and more portable than a big crowbar. Whether "chopping" something that one deems offensive or simply maintaining a route where the hardware may have been misplaced, mangled, or manky, this could be a useful device.

- mattp