Auto Industry Bailout

[pc313]

 

 

Sara describing the Moose penis she had stuffed and mounted several times,and how it was her most prized hunting trophy,al-though she prefers killing Caribou so the kids come along.

[pc313]

Nothing wrong with making things that people want to buy.

 

 

Apparently, you haven't been shopping with Skymall lately. Now that the Sharper Image has bit it, Skymall now takes the Civilizational Decline and Selling Our Planet Down The River In The Name Of "Economic Freedom" Award. Here are some examples that even include some "labor saving" devices so you can spend more time at work (TruckNutz not included):

 

The Pet's Observation Dome.

 

This clear acrylic dome opens a window to the world that helps satisfy a pet's natural curiosity while maintaining safety and security. The porthole mounts easily over a hole cut into the fence and the 9-1/2" diam. dome protrudes 5" to give an inquisitive canine a panoramic view of the world beyond. The black plastic flange secures the porthole into any style of wood privacy fence. Spacing several portholes along the fence gives your pet an unfettered view of its surroundings and may help reduce barking or other undesirable behaviors. 12-1/2" Diam. x 5" D. (3 lbs.)

We use your color photo (up to 8" x 10") to create a full color custom throw!

 

Turn your parent's wedding photo into a cherished heirloom, honor a military hero, make a keepsake of the last family reunion photo or memorialize a beloved pet! Design is actually jacquard woven right into the 100% cotton tapestry throw--not screen printed--for a soft, lush feel and unbelievable reproduction.

 

We send you a packet with an order form and instructions, which you send to the production facility, along with a clear photo. Your original photo and throw will be returned to you from the production facility in about 4 weeks. Sorry, we cannot reproduce copyrighted photos or professional studio portraits.

 

70" x 54" Machine washable

Power & Confidence. Samson is More Than a Story about Hair.

I started losing my hair in my late 20s. I started regaining my hair NOW! That's what you are going to say when you talk about your hair again.

You know all the reasons for you hair loss. It's genetic, and it's not your fault. Of course, you know that there are numerous studies that have proven that Minoxidil (an over-the counter hair loss remedy) can reduce hair loss and even grow hair back in some cases. There are numerous studies that have shown that a thorough cleaning of the scalp, removal of excess dead skin, anti-bacterial shampoo, and even infrared have shown reduced the rate of hair loss.

 

Samson's dual system provides you with one combo to help cleanse your scalp of dead skin buildup with a low-level infrared system and ozone producing system. The cleansing comb will kill bacteria buildup on your scalp, stimulate your hair follicles, and brush away dead skin with each stroke.

 

Follow-up with the applicator comb that will apply Minoxidil directly to your scalp while using ultrasonic vibrations to get the Minoxidil into the roots of your hair. No messing around with using your fingers to massage the Minoxidil into your scalp each day. Simply follow the usual instructions on the box of Minoxidil. Except, with the Samson Dual Stage System, pour the Minoxidil into the applicator comb and turn on the ultrasonic vibration. The applicator comb will do the rest of the work. In a few months, you'll see the results.

 

Take back the power. Take back your confidence. Take back your hair. The Samson Dual Stage Hair System is the only system available that uses proven hair loss reduction methods in combination with the most successful hair growth breakthrough in modern medicine: Minoxidil. Your life is more than a story about hair, but you'll have some great stories to tell when people ask you how your hair came back.

Don't loose your Bluetooth headset!

 

Answer calls quickly, safely, and stylish with these award-winning wireless headset holders. No more reaching to answer the phone while driving or forgetting where you placed your headset. This easy-to-fasten/unfasten accessory works with all headset styles and makes a great gift for headset users.

 

Necklace: specify Crystal (clear), Blue, or Pink Swarovski crystals.

Retractable Leash Clip: specify Matte or Metallic Black Metal.

Our wine chiller keeps wine at optimum serving temperature.

 

Using thermoelectric technology, it cools or warms your wine so it is always served at the proper temperature for the best flavor and bouquet. Its internal database knows 26 types of red, white and sparkling wine. Backlit LED display shows both the current and target serving temperatures, and an alarm announces when the proper serving temperature is reached.

Dispense paper towels with a wave of your hand!

 

No more wasted paper towels! The Towel-Matic's sensor-activated control dispenses one sheet, two sheets, or the new half sheet with just a wave of your hand. It never unravels. Built-in optical sensor automatically identifies the perforations on the towel and stops right at the line every time.

 

One-handed operation guarantees perfect tearing and helps prevent the spread of germs. Designed for tabletop, wall mount or under-cabinet mount.

 

Requires 4 D batteries (not included).

 

Great stuff. Boy, who needs to waste our precious "finite" and "limited" resources on things like health care, green transport and energy technologies, education, wages people can live on, etc. when they're already being directed at such pressing problems as designing an art deco ass-wiping robot?

 

People will buy anything,hell i know someone who bought a pet rock!

[bradleym]

so what are you arguing for, prole? the directorate of stupid products that will guard the culture from doggy windows? kind of like the academie francaise, and perhaps just as successful at keeping 'le weekend' out of the language.

 

and are you really advocating the position that amurricans should have been protected from the advertising that somehow got them to buy SUVs? egads.

 

i'm with you on the stupid products (including SUVs), and government should be involved, but that involvement should be in the form of incentives to achieve a societal good. for example, I (voice in the wilderness, woe is me) have argued for years that the government should either phase out subsidies for fuel or implement a real gas tax (say, +.25/gal/year until it adds up to at least a 3-4 bucks a gallon). Such action would encourage certain behaviors in both producers and consumers, but would leave to the 'marketplace' how to cope.

 

a similar example would be implementation of a carbon cap-and-trade scheme, that leaves the market free to figure it out.

 

nationalising the auto companies so that an 'auto czar' could figure out what types of cars to build would be stupid. we don't need the old Skoda, though the new one isn't bad. providing a real safety net for the workers who are displaced (unemployment, relo, healthcare, training, etc.) is where government money should go.

 

and hugh, get over the financial bailout. its a fact now, and it is categorically different from bailing out the automakers. i don't know where you work, but chances are better than even that your employer must dip into the money markets from time to time to make payroll (cash flow is not always even) or to buy new equipment or whatever. even government agencies need to do this to provide basic services. if that all goes to the wall, then the effect is multiplied throughout the economy, and then we have much larger problems to endure than the automakers self-inflicted plight.

[Hugh Conway]

and hugh, get over the financial bailout. its a fact now, and it is categorically different from bailing out the automakers.

 

Please explain what standards and principles are being used to disburse the bailout funds. Even Henry Paulson can't - so to argue it's categorically different is impossible because we don't even know what we are doing!

 

Actually, my company is fucked because of the contraction of the credit market. I'm well aware of the nasty effects, and I'm more than well aware the financial bailout has had exactly ZERO of the intended consequences so far. Except the preservation of cronyism and corruption on Wall Street.

[Jim]

A couple of primary differences in the way the pro-market Bushies have handled the bail out funds compared to the Brits:

 

1) The Brits wrote in specific rules on how the new capital would have to be dispersed into the credit markets. We did no such thing and are now begging the banks to loan more money.

 

2) The Brits stipulated that institutions that took bailout money could not pay dividends to their shareholders until the loans were paid back to the government. We did not include these sidebars and last week banks that received loans paid their shareholders the normal dividends, which add up to hundreds of millions. Hey taxpayers, thanks!

[bradleym]

and hugh, get over the financial bailout. its a fact now, and it is categorically different from bailing out the automakers.

 

Please explain what standards and principles are being used to disburse the bailout funds. Even Henry Paulson can't - so to argue it's categorically different is impossible because we don't even know what we are doing!

 

Actually, my company is fucked because of the contraction of the credit market. I'm well aware of the nasty effects, and I'm more than well aware the financial bailout has had exactly ZERO of the intended consequences so far. Except the preservation of cronyism and corruption on Wall Street.

 

i don't have a good answer for you, but i don't think it is as bad as all that. to assume that everything works according to cabals and conspiracies, that no one involved possesses any level of integrity, is to give up altogether. you might as well cut your rope.

 

we'll always be able to quibble about how the decisions are made, what motives are dominant, etc., but that doesn't change the fact that, however we got here, the banking system is in trouble and we must act quickly and decisively.

 

it is mainly a crisis of confidence (remember, greed and fear rule most markets) so inasmuch as confidence has been restored, then it has been a success. the amount of money and where it went may actually be secondary--i don't know. LIBOR is falling, though that could change, and there seems to be some loosening of the credit markets. did the bailout do that? hard to say, but i think we'll see no more bank failures, as least for now. are they lending again? that is also hard to say, but there are some powerful people in DC who are watching that carefully.

 

the decisiveness of the financial bailout must now be matched by an equally (or more) decisive government stimulus, which i think we'll begin to see soon. forget the deficit, invest quickly in projects and initiatives that _can_ provide something for all those unemployed autoworkers (et aliis) to do.

[j_b]

i'm with you on the stupid products (including SUVs), and government should be involved, but that involvement should be in the form of incentives to achieve a societal good. for example, I (voice in the wilderness, woe is me) have argued for years that the government should either phase out subsidies for fuel or implement a real gas tax (say, +.25/gal/year until it adds up to at least a 3-4 bucks a gallon). Such action would encourage certain behaviors in both producers and consumers, but would leave to the 'marketplace' how to cope.

 

Government isn't going to do that as long as policy is determined by the oil, automobile and militari-industrial complex.

[Hugh Conway]

we'll always be able to quibble about how the decisions are made, what motives are dominant, etc., but that doesn't change the fact that, however we got here, the banking system is in trouble and we must act quickly and decisively.

 

We acted "quickly and decisively" and all we've done is throw alot of money down the drain. $150 billion for AIG and they are likely to need more. Citibank is toast and will need more funds soon. This reminds me of a maxim from the earlier debates - when people realize the actual effects they are pissed. When it's cloaked in standard Wall Street opacity they can be conned into believing its necessary immediately.

[bradleym]

i'm with you on the stupid products (including SUVs), and government should be involved, but that involvement should be in the form of incentives to achieve a societal good. for example, I (voice in the wilderness, woe is me) have argued for years that the government should either phase out subsidies for fuel or implement a real gas tax (say, +.25/gal/year until it adds up to at least a 3-4 bucks a gallon). Such action would encourage certain behaviors in both producers and consumers, but would leave to the 'marketplace' how to cope.

 

Government isn't going to do that as long as policy is determined by the oil, automobile and militari-industrial complex.

 

well, admittedly, its a blunt instrument and may not work, but my vote for Obama / Merckley / against anything proposed by Sizemore last week was a vote to end all that. at least, I hope we won't see a repeat of Cheney and his gang setting national energy policy, but time will tell...

[j_b]

it is mainly a crisis of confidence

 

The entire financial house of card coming down while the real economy keeps tanking is a crisis of confidence? I don't think so. We have a systemic crisis that requires profound changes.

 

The End

by Michael Lewis Nov 11 2008

The era that defined Wall Street is finally, officially over. Michael Lewis, who chronicled its excess in Liar’s Poker, returns to his old haunt to figure out what went wrong.

"At some point, I gave up waiting for the end. There was no scandal or reversal, I assumed, that could sink the system." THe End Follow link for story

[bradleym]

we'll always be able to quibble about how the decisions are made, what motives are dominant, etc., but that doesn't change the fact that, however we got here, the banking system is in trouble and we must act quickly and decisively.

 

We acted "quickly and decisively" and all we've done is throw alot of money down the drain. $150 billion for AIG and they are likely to need more. Citibank is toast and will need more funds soon. This reminds me of a maxim from the earlier debates - when people realize the actual effects they are pissed. When it's cloaked in standard Wall Street opacity they can be conned into believing its necessary immediately.

 

you know, you may be right. i certainly have my doubts about the bailout, and i am thoroughly irritated that we're even in this situation, but i think inaction at this point is the worst policy. i agree that there will probably be plenty of undeserving recipients of the largesse. maybe there is still time to implement some of the strictures put in place by the brits (noted above) that may help. there are certainly hearings going on now and in the upcoming lame-duck session to address just these sorts of questions.

[j_b]

 

well, admittedly, its a blunt instrument and may not work, but my vote for Obama / Merckley / against anything proposed by Sizemore last week was a vote to end all that. at least, I hope we won't see a repeat of Cheney and his gang setting national energy policy, but time will tell...

 

It has been going on for almost a century so Cheney was only the latest (and admitedly one of the worst) so Obama has his work cut out for him and he won't succeed without our pushing. That is, assuming that he intends to really act on it.

[bradleym]

it is mainly a crisis of confidence

 

The entire financial house of card coming down while the real economy keeps tanking is a crisis of confidence? I don't think so. We have a systemic crisis that requires profound changes.

 

The End

by Michael Lewis Nov 11 2008

The era that defined Wall Street is finally, officially over. Michael Lewis, who chronicled its excess in Liar’s Poker, returns to his old haunt to figure out what went wrong.

"At some point, I gave up waiting for the end. There was no scandal or reversal, I assumed, that could sink the system." THe End Follow link for story

 

well, actually I think that it is a crisis of confidence, brought on by years of voodoo economics, de-regulation, anything goes financial practices, and an entire culture of 'I want it now dammit'. it is also contributing to the downturn in the 'real' economy, and in turn is feeding off of that picture as it emerges.

 

i am just as frightened, pissed off and flummoxed as anyone by what is going on, and i don't claim any special knowledge here. i'm just saying that however flawed the bailout may be, it is necessary in the case of the banking system, but not necessary in the case of the automakers. our goal with them should be to protect the workers who are going to lose (sooner or later, bailout only postpones that) in a way that looks after everyone's interest.

 

fwiw, which may be very little.

[j_b]

well, actually I think that it is a crisis of confidence, brought on by years of voodoo economics, de-regulation, anything goes financial practices, and an entire culture of 'I want it now dammit'. it is also contributing to the downturn in the 'real' economy, and in turn is feeding off of that picture as it emerges.

 

In my opinion, the economy hit the wall when we reached peak oil in the US (70's) and instead of investing into alternatives we invested into means of controlling our oil under their sand, which is not sustainable because it is very expensive, destroys wealth and cheap oil is very limited (killing people however seems quite sustainable). Almost all so-called growth since Carter-Reagan has been speculative and/or debt-based.

 

i am just as frightened, pissed off and flummoxed as anyone by what is going on, and i don't claim any special knowledge here. i'm just saying that however flawed the bailout may be, it is necessary in the case of the banking system, but not necessary in the case of the automakers. our goal with them should be to protect the workers who are going to lose (sooner or later, bailout only postpones that) in a way that looks after everyone's interest.

 

It depends on what choices are made for infrastructure. I don't believe we'll completely do away with individual means of tranport so there will be a need for automobile making. I agree that saving industries requires answering a different set of questions and that some form of action is needed to permit lending but I am not sure it demands saving all financial institutions.

 

Edited November 14, 2008 by j_b

[Crux]

it is mainly a crisis of confidence

 

The entire financial house of card coming down while the real economy keeps tanking is a crisis of confidence? I don't think so. We have a systemic crisis that requires profound changes.

 

The End

by Michael Lewis Nov 11 2008

The era that defined Wall Street is finally, officially over. Michael Lewis, who chronicled its excess in Liar’s Poker, returns to his old haunt to figure out what went wrong.

"At some point, I gave up waiting for the end. There was no scandal or reversal, I assumed, that could sink the system." THe End Follow link for story

 

Fascinating read - The End.

[prole]

so what are you arguing for, prole? the directorate of stupid products that will guard the culture from doggy windows? kind of like the academie francaise, and perhaps just as successful at keeping 'le weekend' out of the language.

 

and are you really advocating the position that amurricans should have been protected from the advertising that somehow got them to buy SUVs? egads.

 

i'm with you on the stupid products (including SUVs), and government should be involved, but that involvement should be in the form of incentives to achieve a societal good. for example, I (voice in the wilderness, woe is me) have argued for years that the government should either phase out subsidies for fuel or implement a real gas tax (say, +.25/gal/year until it adds up to at least a 3-4 bucks a gallon). Such action would encourage certain behaviors in both producers and consumers, but would leave to the 'marketplace' how to cope.

 

a similar example would be implementation of a carbon cap-and-trade scheme, that leaves the market free to figure it out.

 

nationalising the auto companies so that an 'auto czar' could figure out what types of cars to build would be stupid. we don't need the old Skoda, though the new one isn't bad. providing a real safety net for the workers who are displaced (unemployment, relo, healthcare, training, etc.) is where government money should go.

 

and hugh, get over the financial bailout. its a fact now, and it is categorically different from bailing out the automakers. i don't know where you work, but chances are better than even that your employer must dip into the money markets from time to time to make payroll (cash flow is not always even) or to buy new equipment or whatever. even government agencies need to do this to provide basic services. if that all goes to the wall, then the effect is multiplied throughout the economy, and then we have much larger problems to endure than the automakers self-inflicted plight.

 

No, all I'm saying is that while capitalism is incredibly productive, it is also terrifyingly wasteful despite its claims to allocate resources in the most efficient manner. As you suggest, I think the State can have a role to play in terms of providing incentives or a "nudge" to channel resources towards social good in some cases. (Jay might be the only person not willing to admit hat Detroit might be better off had it adopted some government efficiency standards.) If one doesn't want the State to mandate what is produced by whom and leave the market to determine how resources are allocated and solve the massive problems that humanity now faces, then we need to develop new consciousnesses that incorporate an ethical dimension, analysis, and critique about how, why, and for whom things are produced. Doing so requires jettisoning horseshit fantasies like this,

it's okay to produce whatever can be sold

back to the Candyland from which it came.

[bradleym]

No, all I'm saying is that while capitalism is incredibly productive, it is also terrifyingly wasteful despite its claims to allocate resources in the most efficient manner. As you suggest, I think the State can have a role to play in terms of providing incentives or a "nudge" to channel resources towards social good in some cases. (Jay might be the only person not willing to admit hat Detroit might be better off had it adopted some government efficiency standards.) If one doesn't want the State to mandate what is produced by whom and leave the market to determine how resources are allocated and solve the massive problems that humanity now faces, then we need to develop new consciousnesses that incorporate an ethical dimension, analysis, and critique about how, why, and for whom things are produced.

 

i would amend this to say that humans are incredibly wasteful, and typically only change their behaviors due to price pressures (or threat of physical violence, but that seldom lasts). Capitalism is very efficient for allocating resources but, because it is based on human greed/fear/selfishness/myopia, it contains the seeds of its own destruction. That is why humans develop other societal structures (government, social contracts, customs--civilization, in short) to curb the chaos and to keep it at bay. We've just lived through thirty+ years of the dominant crowd telling us that all we need is capitalism--we don't need no stinkin' civilization--and the results are what we're living through right now.

 

i agree that the only way for this to change is for the majority to 'develop new consciousness', etc., but how is that done? You've got 500 channels of bad TV, James Bond and Britney Spears--and golf, I hate golf! You call for 'ethics', 'analysis' and 'critique', but most just aren't interested in that. You can lead the horse to water, etc. Maybe the progressive crowd can turn some of that around, but we don't value education, and anti-intellectualism is rampant (though perhaps that will subside, and it will be 'cool' again). Investing in education, paying teachers better, encouraging parents to spend time with the kids, read a book from time to time, switch off the entertainment--those are the only path I know to get people to be more thoughtful and to take an interest in larger things than doggie windows. It cannot be mandated, but again perhaps the government (us, really) can deliver incentives that gently push us down such a path.

 

btw, here is an editorial in todays nytimes that seems relevant: Saving the Automakers

Edited November 15, 2008 by bradleym

[pc313]

Maybe bring back the fishbowl?

[tvashtarkatena]

That's some fuck'n cool shit. I didn't even know Skykomish had a mall.

[bradleym]

perhaps we're all sick of this one, but the times has an article this morning that lays out some of the arguments being made pro and con bailout:

 

More automaker bailout talk

 

i'm not inclined to place too much weight upon anything either the UAW or GM management have to say, but they both pack considerable political clout, and everyone is scared right now. perhaps the best we can hope for is a bailout that comes with restrictions similar to what would have been the case in a bankruptcy.

 

imagine, no more suburbans, no more durangos...

[Bug]

imagine, no more suburbans, no more durangos...

 

About freakin time.

[billcoe]

imagine, no more suburbans, no more durangos...

 

About freakin time.

No shit. Those MF asswipes in the Bush admin were GIVING FU*kING TAX BREAKS TO ASSHOLES WHO OWNED BUSINESS TO BUY THOSE P.O. SH*T!!!!$XX#@XX!&

 

GDamn, don't get me started. MF! GRRRRRRRRrrrrr

 

Business owners received a tax break for buying 8000 lb GVW and over vehicles. Shi*t, how f*ing stupid...Grrrrrrr

[j_b]

"It'll go down as one of the biggest blunders in history of the automotive industry"

 

[video:youtube]nsJAlrYjGz8

[tvashtarkatena]

I want one a those laser nose hair clippers for my shar pei.

[jon]

Great article.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/19/opinion/19romney.html?hp