Skiing in Plastics?

[rocky_joe]

So I have been a snowboarder since jr. high and am now trying to make the switch back to skiing. but i am by now means yet ready to ski some sick couloir in the middle of the rockys. how ever mountains suck as south sister and hood have caught my attention. when ski mountaineering has anyone ever used plastic mountaineering boots or just stick with ski boots?

 

[MarkMcJizzy]

So I have been a snowboarder since jr. high and am now trying to make the switch back to skiing. but i am by now means yet ready to ski some sick couloir in the middle of the rockys. how ever mountains suck as south sister and hood have caught my attention. when ski mountaineering has anyone ever used plastic mountaineering boots or just stick with ski boots?

 

Please use english when asking questions on this board, and not Eugenbonics.

 

So I have been a snowboarder since jr. high school, and am now trying to make the switch back to skiing. I am now ready to ski some sick couloir in the middle of the Rockies. However, mountains such as South Sister and Mount Hood have caught my attention. When ski mountaineering has anyone ever used plastic mountaineering boots or just stuck with ski boots?

 

Being from South Park Colorado, I know you have had the bar set pretty damn low, but now it's time to man up, and at least try to pretend you're not a moron

 

 

 

[DPS]

I have skiied in plastic mountaineering boots. I pretty well sucks going down hill.

[AlpineK]

I started backcountry skiing with an old downhill setup. It was all I had, but it led to a lot of side stepping

 

Once I did get bindings that locked and released the only boots I could find were climbing boots. I assumed that was part of the game. This setup does work, but it forces you to really focus on skiing form and positioning your body correctly over your skis.

 

It works, but if you do a lot of backcountry skiing it really sucks. I'd spend the money on good ski boots for backcountry skiing and put off spending a lot on either skis or bindings.

 

On the other hand if skis are just a tool to approach winter climbs then live with shitty skiing since boots that work best with technical climbing are more important.

[sobo]

I have skiied in plastic mountaineering boots. I pretty well sucks going down hill.

Same here. What he and Feck said.

 

I use my plastics with my AT set-up to access ice climbs (only need one pair of boots that way).

I have a tele set-up that I use for BC sking (different boots and skis entirely).

[Dan_Miller]

No question about it; get ski mountainering (randonee) boots before you snap your tib/fib and/or ankle joint.

 

It is very difficult to maintain proper balance over your skiis with the very minimal calf/shin support even the burliest of plastic double boots may provide.

 

Heed our warnings, the posters above 'know' what they're speaking about. Enough said!

 

 

[Dannible]

I've spent the last couple of winters skiing in plastic boots, and have progressed very little since I started, and have often worried about breaking one of my ankles. I finally got used ski boots last spring.

[Matt Kidd]

I am not a strong skier and have used the mountaineering boots setup for quite a few approaches. Maybe a good skier could manage better than me but I end up on my face more than I'd care to admit. I will add my vote to the others.

[pms]

another vote for the ski boots. No need to over do it however. 75% or more of your time may be spent on the up hill.

[mccallboater]

at risk of repetition:

 

http://cascadeclimbers.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/798157/Re_Approach_skis_for_the_medio#Post798157

 

Basically, mountaineering boots work fine if you really know how to ski.

[Hugh Conway]

Basically, mountaineering boots work fine if you really know how to ski.

 

ermm, no.

[mccallboater]

It depends on what kind of skiing one wants to do. Approach a climb, cross glaciers, kerflump your way down blue-diamond type descents...mountainering boots, Silvretta 500's and an easy-turning ski do just fine. Steep stuff, boilerplate ice, etc., I use my AT setup. ANybody who's skied with me knows I'm not superman on skis.

[denalidave]

So what size boot do you need anyway? I upgraded my AT boots last year and have a pair of Nordica AT boots that you can have pretty cheap. I think they are size 10.5 (or +/- a half size of that).

 

 

[Ishmael]

skiing in plastics is a very frustrating time... I ski just fine and every time I have skied in plastics I have just gotten upset as I can not ski to the level I think I should...

[xyzzy]

A good pair of AT boots are the answer. I have a pair of Garmonts with a "walk" and "ski" setting (the latter tightens them down) that are great. Granted, they're not as good for mountaineering as my ICE 9000's, but they keep my feet warm. And when locked down, they ski far better then the mountaineering boots.

 

I do know people who approach in mountaineering plastics and ski down in AT boots. I was never one to want to carry the extra weight, though. Most AT boot models are plenty warm these days, though, with thermofit liners and all, so it's really just a matter of getting crampons to fit them, IMO. But even that is not that big of a problem anymore.

[PaulB]

Basically, mountaineering boots work fine if you really know how to ski.

Maybe, in soft snow on a gentle slope, but most of the time snowplow turns will be as good as it gets. Mountaineering boots + AT bindings are really just an alternative to snowshoes that let you travel downhill slightly faster.

 

AT boots climb better than mountaineering boots ski.

[Lowell_Skoog]

Basically, mountaineering boots work fine if you really know how to ski.

Maybe, in soft snow on a gentle slope, but most of the time snowplow turns will be as good as it gets. Mountaineering boots + AT bindings are really just an alternative to snowshoes that let you travel downhill slightly faster.

 

AT boots climb better than mountaineering boots ski.

 

Here are some pictures of skiing in mountaineering boots.

 

 

 

 

[Crevasse]

Um. Maybe some fraction of a percent might pull it off and like it but most will think of fear and loathing. Of the few times I have tried it I was full of trepidation and it put me into ski survival mode and I was just trying to make it down. If I am going to pack all of this crap in then I darn well want to enjoy the ski down and hit it hard. So I guess it is what you are in it for. Save money, weight, fun skiing... That's my experience.

[PaulB]

Here are some pictures of skiing in mountaineering boots.

Impressive.... I (and I'm guessing many others) sure couldn't pull it off.

 

Out of curiosity, were there dedicated AT boots in the 80s or was it a choice between regular downhill ski boots and mountaineering boots?

[campwire]

When I started BC skiing in the late 80's I used plastic mountaineering boots. They worked fine in decent snow conditions in almost any terrain, but your balance had to be perfect. At the time there were very few AT boots available, most hardcore folks were stiffening their boots with homemade plastic uppers. I looked into making my own uppers using splinting plastic, but chose to switch to tele instead and use the AT for approaches. Besides at the time tele gear was much lighter for the uphills.

[AlpineK]

Here are some pictures of skiing in mountaineering boots.

Impressive.... I (and I'm guessing many others) sure couldn't pull it off.

 

Out of curiosity, were there dedicated AT boots in the 80s or was it a choice between regular downhill ski boots and mountaineering boots?

 

My experience is that sometime in the 80s there was a switch. Maybe I wasn't paying close enough attention to products available, but back then it was either mountaineering boots or downhill ski boots. If you go way back to my dads era AT ski boots were all leather since all ski boots were that way.

 

Skiing in mountaineering boots is exciting, doable, and does make you focus on technique, but like others have said injury chances go up.

[mark1980]

So which AT boots work best when you ditch the skis and start climbing? Are there any that fit wide feet better than others?

[Lowell_Skoog]

Out of curiosity, were there dedicated AT boots in the 80s or was it a choice between regular downhill ski boots and mountaineering boots?

 

There were dedicated AT boots in the 1980s, but FAR fewer choices than today, and the choices were not nearly as good as we have now. For what it's worth, the pictures in the top row above were taken in 1985. The second row shows 1994 (left) and 1988 (right). The bottom picture shows 1989.

 

I'd have to search my journal for details, but I think I bought my first AT boots in 1989 or 1990. They were orange Dynafits without Tourlight Tech fittings, which weren't available yet. They were boxy and hurt my shins, but lightweight. Some of my friends bought AT boots earlier than I did. I adopted them more slowly because I was more interested in ski mountaineering traverses than yo-yo skiing and I was comfortable skiing in mountaineering boots. I preferred mountaineering boots for long distance trips (I still do) because of their comfort and freedom of movement.

 

It's hard to imagine now, but in the 1980s backcountry skiing was very different from today. Yo-yo skiing was a smaller part of the sport and touring (going places) was a larger part. I think the biggest reason for the change was the shaped/fat ski revolution in the 1990s, combined with the development of better AT boots and bindings. In the 1980s, when many AT skiers used mountaineering boots and narrow, lightly-shaped skis, it was rare to see AT skiers who could link short radius turns in powder (i.e. "powder-8" style turns). Most were making one turn at a time. Now EVERYBODY can crank turns in powder because the gear is so much better. That's why in the 1980s telemark skiers were the vast majority of backcountry skiers whereas today they are the minority.

 

In the early 1980s, there was no media devoted to backcountry skiing and only a handful of suppliers. There were no "backcountry skis" available for AT skiers, that I recall. You used second-hand alpine skis. Hexcels (aluminum honeycomb construction) were regarded as some of the best alpine skis for the backcountry because they were lighter than most. With mediocre gear, there were few full-time AT skiers. Most of the people who did it spent much of the winter skiing the lifts. It was hard to justify buying specialized gear for something you didn't do all the time, so people got by with cheap substitutes like mountaineering boots. Nobody owned a quiver of backcountry skis.

 

Today backcountry skiing is a maturing sport with a huge array of product choices and new developments coming out every year. People spend far more money on gear than they did 20+ years ago because the media/industry has cranked up the energy level so there is more "churn". Today's gear is awesome, but it's fascinating to think back on the changes in just a couple decades.

 

 

 

 

[j_b]

You guys should try downhill skiing in vintage leather boots to really appreciate lack of support. I learned in leather boots and still, I can't really ski anything harder than perfect conditions in climbing boots.

 

Lowell, did you use custom stabilizers with your mountaineering boots?

 

 

Edited October 13, 2008 by j_b

[AlpineK]

My first ski boots were leather. Looking at my dads old skis there was no difference between AT and downhill bindings. Cable bindings that only took two clicks to go into climbing mode.

 

 

 

 

Missing a toe piece, but you get the idea.

 

I have access to some real seal skins too.