And the Accusations Begin!

[Dan_Miller]

From this morning's Seattle Times and the AP:

 

K2 survivor faults gear, porter in deaths

An Italian who survived an avalanche that killed fellow climbers on the world's second-highest peak said Wednesday that poor equipment and...

 

By MUNIR AHMAD

 

The Associated Press

 

Marco Confortola of Italy was rescued Wednesday.

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan — An Italian who survived an avalanche that killed fellow climbers on the world's second-highest peak said Wednesday that poor equipment and a mistake by a porter contributed to the tragedy.

 

Marco Confortola was among 30 mountaineers who began their ascent of K2 on Friday. He was stranded after an ice fall swept some climbers away and left others stranded in frigid conditions just below the 28,250-foot summit. In all, 11 people died.

 

Confortola said poor equipment — including ropes and spikes that broke — as well as sloppiness and inexperience were partly to blame for the disaster. A Dutch survivor, Wilco Van Rooijen, has said advance climbers laid ropes in wrong places, including in a treacherous gully known as "The Bottleneck," about 1,150 feet below the summit, where the avalanche later occurred.

 

Confortola was rescued from K2 Wednesday and taken to a hospital with severe frostbite on his toes.

 

"What happened on K2 was the result of many things, one of which was bad luck," he told Italian news agency ANSA. "There has been also some sloppiness. A 200-meter (656-feet) rope, very light but resistant ... has not been brought by a bit of a sloppy porter and we started to get trouble."

 

K2 expeditions hire Pakistani tour operators who support them with porter services to carry gear to base camps and supply the camps.

 

Confortola blamed the first death, of a Serbian climber, on the equipment, ANSA said. The dead included three South Koreans, two Nepalis, two Pakistanis and mountaineers from France, Ireland, and Norway as well.

 

Van Rooijen, who was rescued Monday, also blamed mistakes in preparation — not just the avalanche — for the loss of life. He said the advance climbers who laid ropes caused hours of delays, so some climbers reached the summit just before nightfall, while others turned back. Ice overhanging the route fell as the fastest mountaineers were descending some of the iciest and most difficult sections just below the summit.

 

Confortola said the expedition spent about an hour and a half under a huge block of ice overhanging the route, "and it's something you should not do at 8,400 meters (27,000 feet)."

 

Fatal accidents are common on the treacherous peaks that attract top mountaineers to Pakistan each summer, but this is the deadliest incident in memory, surpassing the seven climbers killed on K2 during a fierce storm in 1995.

 

K2, which straddles Pakistan and China, is regarded by mountaineers as far more challenging than Mount Everest, the world's highest peak. The mesmerizing giant pyramid of K2's knife-edged ridges and icy slopes are steeper and prone to both avalanches and sudden and severe storms.

 

About 280 people have reached K2's summit since 1954, when it was first achieved by Italians Achille Compagnoni and Lino Lacedelli. Dozens of deaths have been recorded since 1939.

 

Copyright © 2008 The Seattle Times Company

 

 

 

[kevbone]

I thought an ice fall was the problem?

[Choada_Boy]

 

Which climber will spend an hour exposed to ice fall while waiting for the sherpas to lay fixed ropes? Which climber will sit and wait for help after the fixed ropes are swept away?

 

 

[sobo]

I remember vividly when that happened.

 

Kevbone,

Obviously, there's more than one contributing factor that led to their deaths.

Think outside of your box.

[Hugh Conway]

can I use this space to engage in mindless speculation and pontification?

[sobo]

Please, begin immediately!

[kevbone]

I remember vividly when that happened.

 

Kevbone,

Obviously, there's more than one contributing factor that led to their deaths.

Think outside of your box.

 

 

Obviously....

[Hugh Conway]

Please, begin immediately!

 

I think the biggest problem was their inconceivably childish refusal to carry cellphones

[dberdinka]

It's pretty fucking simple. If you're reliant on porters carrying and fixing ropes for the final summit push on K2 you're probably in over your head. Hubris has a way of catching up with all of us.

[Hugh Conway]

It's pretty fucking simple. If you're reliant on porters carrying and fixing ropes for the final summit push on K2 you're probably in over your head. Hubris has a way of catching up with all of us.

 

you have no fucking idea what you are talking about, do you?

 

several of the dead were highly skilled climbers

 

sweet jesus what more does it take to move this piece of shit thread to spray where it belongs?

[pink]

[mattp]

High, I think dberdinka's basic premise is fairly sound though I would note that it is a whole different ballgame on those big peaks and our normal sense of "what is right" doesn't quite apply. "Up there," people routinely climb well outside any "safe" zone in terms of preparedness and teamwork doesn't work the same either. I suspect that most of us, if faced with a fixed rope high on K2 and the energy to climb it, would ascend that rope regardless of whether we had adequate skills or reserve to get back down in the event that it was not there for the descent. And once things are going wrong it all too often becomes every man for themself.

 

 

[Hugh Conway]

High, I think dberdinka's basic premise is fairly sound

 

sound for what? typical cretinous cascadeclimbers spew? this is the stupid shit that gives this site a bad name.

[Dan_Miller]

When I first read this, and made the post I thought it might get people responding!

 

It's a difficult and often dangerous peak; upon which, many very skilled and 'ballsy' climbers have in the past (and no doubt in the future as well) perished. There is a certain sense that it may be not much more complicated than that.

[dberdinka]

Well Mr Conway your panties are certainly in a wad!

 

... upon which many of very skilled and 'ballsy' climbers have in the past (and no doubt in the future as well) have perished....

 

From what I've read one gets the sense that K2 has been turned into a circus ala Mt Everest style. A lot of those ballsy and skilled climbers died on fully self-supported expeditions or doing small alpine style climbs. This waiting around and getting all bent that the other guys didn't fix ropes to your liking or blaming your gear (WTF?) is ridiculous.

 

While I don't doubt these were all good folks, I'm of the impression they were all not the Rob Slater and Allison Hargreaves of the climbing world.

 

 

[Choada_Boy]

"The other climbers feared the mountain was too slippery and steep, so they decided to wait for rescuers."

 

Should read:

 

"The other climbers lacked the ability to descend without fixed ropes and sat in the snow waiting for someone to get them out of a situation they themselves could not."

 

It's pretty simple. People died doing something dangerous and they increased the danger to themselves by relying on others to get them up and off the mountain. No "cretinous speculation" required. It's like a tandem skydive and the guy with the chute just cut you loose. Now what?

[sobo]

...It's like a tandem skydive and the guy with the chute just cut you loose. Now what?

[thread drift]

 

Reminds me of a story told by Col. Charlie Beckwith (US Army, Ret.), the founder of Delta Force, in his book of the same name. Story goes that in the Iranian desert, during the night preceeding what was to be Delta Force's first operation (the ill-fated mission to free the US hostages at the American Embassy in Tehran), a helicopter became disoriented in the night while moving to refuel. It crashed on top of one of the parked transport planes and burst into flames, engulfing the men inside the plane (the chopper crew was incinerated). One of the Delta operators was asleep in the plane, and was rudely awakened by the blast and subsequent fire. He leapt from the plane in the classic parachute dive form, and face-planted into the sand, got up, and ran away from the carnage. Afterwards, Col. Beckwith asked him what he was thinking by doing that...

 

Beckwith: "What was going through your mind, son?"

Soldier: "When I woke up, I thought we were still airborne and the plane had been hit by a missile strike. I just wanted to get the hell out before it blew up in mid-air."

Beckwith: "But you didn't grab a chute before you jumped."

Soldier: "One problem at a time, Sir. One problem at a time."

 

[/thread drift]

[Fairweather]

Let's see...was that the red rocket I was supposed to fire?

[Hugh Conway]

"The other climbers feared the mountain was too slippery and steep, so they decided to wait for rescuers."

 

Should read:

 

"The other climbers lacked the ability to descend without fixed ropes and sat in the snow waiting for someone to get them out of a situation they themselves could not."

 

It's pretty simple. People died doing something dangerous and they increased the danger to themselves by relying on others to get them up and off the mountain. No "cretinous speculation" required. It's like a tandem skydive and the guy with the chute just cut you loose. Now what?

 

Choada Boy's epiphany: "they died because shit didn't go right"

 

how many bong hits did that take you?

[Choada_Boy]

More like: "They died. Big fucking deal."

[Hugh Conway]

More like: "They died. Big fucking deal."

 

don't confuse your eulogy with theirs.

[ivan]

dude, they clearly forgot the most basic of items when on k2 -

 

THE NITRO!

 

...dude

[pink]

and cowbells

[AlpineK]

I don't know enough about this event to have much of an opinion. I have heard that there is a push to turn K2 into a guided climb.

 

My experience is with folks back awhile ago on the north side of Everest. At the time there were a number of guided groups attempting the north col route.

 

I remember talking to a number of the clients. It's first shocking to hear how much they were willing to spend to come to the mountain. What really got me shaking my head is running into a couple clients at ABC who had just descended fixed ropes from the north col. I remember one fellow telling me how proud he was that this was his first time on a glacier.

 

I really wonder about some clients on these big trips. I got the sense that folks figured money would buy them the help of a guide to save them.

 

Like I said I don't know details, but I don't think guiding on a peak like that is something legitimate to offer or accept.

[Spencer]

As with the Everest tragedy there is no shortage of people to blame, As for fixed ropes, even Ed Viesturs and Dave Hahn wait for those ropes to be set up and much like the Everest Tragedy their set up ( or problems with) played a significant role.

I hear the term inexperienced climbers quite a bit when something like this happens, by who's measure? did the others summit only two 8000 meter peaks and the ones making that statement four? or were they working at a desk all their life and just decided to climb K2 one day?

I also have to put my trust in others while climbing, for example those above me to have the expiereince and common sense not to knock a basketball size rocks down onto me, or crossing a ladder on a Rainier crevasse set up and anchored by someone else. or my buddy's ability to recognize a indent in the snow if he is leading so as not to drag us in to a crevasse. I don't know maybe you guys climb different than I do and in my 30 yrs of climbing Ive been doing it all wrong.......could be.

What makes me sick is the jerk who complained about the guy who fell or laid on his back and he responded by yelling at him to use his ice axe instead and watched him fall to his death, he then complained about inexperienced climbers. or Everest news dot com telling us we "should treat the death of a porter and Sherpa the same as a European or American", I have never seen a single instance of a American climber or Journalist minimize a death because he was a Sherpa or Porter. stupid statement.