Bug Posted July 18, 2008 Posted July 18, 2008 Tele-whacking is the best way to ski deep powder imo. Long GS turns with both skis tracking the same arc...... Mmmm. Can't beat it. And I get to pick my own gear. Don't be saddling me with those high tech plastic phophoo boots and super wide floaty skiis. Those are attempts to hijack the sport. I'm talkin about riding snow not overpowering it. Area skiing hard-pack on tele boards is just not practical. Quote
Frikadeller Posted July 19, 2008 Posted July 19, 2008 knuckle draggers on the other hand.... I like the annual splitboarder gaypride parade! Whats wrong with splitboarding, huh, fucknut?! Quote
Hugh Conway Posted July 20, 2008 Posted July 20, 2008 Whats wrong with splitboarding, huh, fucknut?! there aren't enough of you 20 minutes to transition and can't side hill out there Quote
Frikadeller Posted July 21, 2008 Posted July 21, 2008 Whats wrong with splitboarding, huh, fucknut?! there aren't enough of you 20 minutes to transition and can't side hill out there You have been watching the wrong guys... 20 minutes to transition? But, I did buy a Tele set up this year... So far I think it sucks. But gimme some time, that might change.... Or it might not. Quote
Hugh Conway Posted July 21, 2008 Posted July 21, 2008 But gimme some time, that might change.... Or it might not. buy rando gear with Dynafits. never look back. it is the supreme ski tool for the alpine environment *alright the tight long radius fall line snowboard turns are fucking awesome, but i've seen exactly 5 of those tracks in my life Quote
Fairweather Posted July 21, 2008 Author Posted July 21, 2008 Ahhh, there's nothing like watching a herd of 30 snowboarders side-slipping their way down Upper International, polishing the slope to a fine albedo of 1. Quote
Hugh Conway Posted July 21, 2008 Posted July 21, 2008 Ahhh, there's nothing like watching a herd of 30 snowboarders side-slipping their way down Upper International, polishing the slope to a fine albedo of 1. Which matchs wonderfully with the sticker on the lift poles on the way up - "Sideslipping is not snowboarding!" Quote
PaulB Posted July 21, 2008 Posted July 21, 2008 Arrogant, holier-than-thou, cult-like pricks clinging to a dying sport? Dude, "AT Apostle" on TTips has beat this dead horse into the ground multiple times. Get a new schtick. That being said, I'll take the bait.... Yeah, some tele skiers enjoy playing up the "look at me" factor, especially when riding the lifts, but there are plenty ripping it up in bounds and in the backcountry who couldn't care less who is watching. Smart tele skiers will use whatever turn is appropriate for the terrain.... you can do tele jump turns in a tight chute, but parallel turns would make more sense. Only the "televangelist" insists on making tele turns in all situations, and is a less accomplished skier for it. There's no doubt that the turn itself is more work than parallel skiing. For some, that's the whole point... they enjoy the extra workout and/or the satisfaction of learning a new skill and executing it well. As for touring efficiency, with modern free pivot tele bindings it's pretty much the same as with most AT setups (excluding Dynafit, which is indeed the cat's ass). It's also worth noting that AT and tele boots are starting to look very similar. You can get AT boots with bellows and telemark boots with Dynafit inserts. A binding which allows for both tele and fixed heel turns will probably appear in the not too distant future. It's already been done by mixing and matching existing binding components. Choice is good. Ski what you like. The freshies will be back in about 4 moons! We will now return to the regularly scheduled spraying. Quote
mattp Posted July 21, 2008 Posted July 21, 2008 Do modern "free pivot" telemark bindings mean that when you pick up the foot the tail of the ski drops as it does with AT skis? This would be a disadvantage when crawling through woods in relatively low snow cover or crossing creeks on stepping stones and stuff like that. One other situation where the telemark turn can be advanageous is in brushy woods or other settings where the fact that you can smoothly execute the turn at very low speeds can be a plus. Quote
PaulB Posted July 21, 2008 Posted July 21, 2008 Do modern "free pivot" telemark bindings mean that when you pick up the foot the tail of the ski drops as it does with AT skis? This would be a disadvantage when crawling through woods in relatively low snow cover or crossing creeks on stepping stones and stuff like that.Yes, when in free pivot mode they behave just like an AT binding. In the situations you describe, you can choose to leave the binding in "ski" mode and the resistance of the springs will keep the skis from flopping around. A free pivot is sweet when doing a lot of climbing for long descents or lots of laps in a day, but for simple "point A to point B" touring and when dealing with bush, streams, etc. I prefer the versatility of the traditional tele binding. Quote
mattp Posted July 21, 2008 Posted July 21, 2008 That free pivot is also nice, I bet, when breaking trail in deep powder where the tip may come up out of the snow with less effort toward stretching the calf while lifting the foot moving forward, but how does it behave when you replant that forward foot after bringing the tip in and over the other ski to minimize the work of pulling it out of the snow? I suspect the floppier ski may cut either way in such conditions. Quote
Hugh Conway Posted July 21, 2008 Posted July 21, 2008 I'll take the bait.... Why change lures when the fish still bite? Quote
Frikadeller Posted July 22, 2008 Posted July 22, 2008 But gimme some time, that might change.... Or it might not. buy rando gear with Dynafits. never look back. it is the supreme ski tool for the alpine environment I am not made of money, if I was, I would take your advise... *alright the tight long radius fall line snowboard turns are fucking awesome, but i've seen exactly 5 of those tracks in my life Ahhhhh... Yes! The "surf".... Once you try it, you will understand the allure of the "snowboard".... Heh.... Sorry to hear that you have only seen five of those tracks... I usually burn many of those tracks a year. I cannot do that on my "skis".... Call me a "knuckle-dragger", I could care less. But when you dorks are submarining your "skis" in deep powder, think of me "surfing" over that crap, having a great time... Maybe I'll sell that Tele set up... Anyone looking for some chili bindings, with a TRP 100 release? Quote
AlpineK Posted July 22, 2008 Posted July 22, 2008 I've snowborded a very small amount. There's no doubt that it is a cool way to slide on snow. I also know some folks who can rip it up without sideslipping. It does fall down in the bc when you get to transition zones. You rip it up down a nice slope then you have to screw around with your board when you get to a low angle slide out, or you need to skin up a hill. Both of these transitions require a lot more screwing around than either AT or tele. Still it is an interesting way to slide. I could say the same about tele. It is an interesting technique, but it is a silly technique for real mountains. Going back in history tele came from an area of the world with long rolling hills. It served those folks well. Eventually folks from the Alps saw it and liked it and brought it back home. Soon they realised that they had steep slopes to ski down, and fixing the heal for descent was the way to deal with their problem. That happened long ago. It was only much later that people tried to keep the tele technique on real slopes. This all ended with all the, "free your heal and your mind will follow," horseshit. I've spent years skiing with tele folks. They all were aghast at my AT technique. I'd constantly explain to them that the AT technique was the dominant skiing technique in the NW and their style while cool was more of a late bloomer. Today after seeing all the problems tele skiers have with making their style work on bigger mountains, and their equipment too, I'm convinced that the changes are leading them back to AT. All they really have left is an elitist attitude from the bad old hippie days. Now I figure if you must tele the totally rad skiing with tele gear is: Ski Jumping XC racing but most importantly Biathlon I mean skiing through the woods with a rifle and blasting shit. How much better can you get. I'm just sorry that that sport hasn't caught on more in the US. When I get older I'm going to take that up. Quote
hafilax Posted July 22, 2008 Posted July 22, 2008 They feel cool because they're moving faster. Quote
TrogdortheBurninator Posted July 22, 2008 Posted July 22, 2008 AT skis are tools for the mountains, splitboards are toys, tele falls somewhere in between. I've had all 3, and have consolidated to just AT. I will probably never ski as well as I snowboard, but it didnt take me too long to realize the limitations of my splitboard, and move over to the dark side for backcountry use. I may buy another splitboard when I get a real job, but for now I am totally happy to snowboard in resorts and ski in the backcountry. I may have liked Tele more if my boots fit, but the classic duckbill still has way more limitations for climbing. Plus, tele is f'in hard compared to downhill or snowboarding. Snowboard boots are the worst of all for climbing (hardboots seem to eliminate any benefit of snowboarding in the first place). Quote
PaulB Posted July 22, 2008 Posted July 22, 2008 I could say the same about tele. It is an interesting technique, but it is a silly technique for real mountains. C'mon now... with modern gear, a decent tele skier can go anywhere an AT skier can. Yes, they may have to work a bit harder, but they know that going in. As long as they aren't slowing down their partner(s), who cares what gear or technique they use? I'm pretty sure that 3 of the 4 primary participants in the Coast Range Ski Traverse used tele gear (and pretty basic gear at that, T2 boots and Voile 3-pin cable bindings). Sure, they weren't ripping 45 degree slopes, but they were definitely traveling through "real mountains". Going back in history tele came from an area of the world with long rolling hills. It served those folks well. Eventually folks from the Alps saw it and liked it and brought it back home. Soon they realised that they had steep slopes to ski down, and fixing the heal for descent was the way to deal with their problem. That happened long ago. It was only much later that people tried to keep the tele technique on real slopes.[historical rambling] The turning technique changed before the binding did. The transition from telemark to wedge, stem and stem christie turns happened in the late 1800s, mostly because they were easier to teach and learn. Increased speed and control on steep slopes were a bonus, and thus Alpine skiing was born. Free heel cable bindings were still the norm, albeit the heel was held pretty close to the ski as ever stronger springs were utilized. The first true fixed heel binding didn't appear until the mid 1930s, and shortly thereafter the first releaseable bindings as well. The move away from the telemark turn was mostly the result of smart marketing of the stem turns by Alpine resorts which had a lot of empty beds during the winter. The modern extension of this would be the invention of shaped skis to even further shorten the learning curve. [/rambling] but most importantly Biathlon I mean skiing through the woods with a rifle and blasting shit. How much better can you get. I'm just sorry that that sport hasn't caught on more in the US. When I get older I'm going to take that up. With the new Nordic center in Whistler, I'm seriously considering checking out biathlon. Anyone looking for some chili bindings, with a TRP 100 release? There seems to be a good market for TRPs. Rottefella doesn't make 'em anymore and they have a bit of a cult following. I had no problems selling a set of TRPs a couple of years ago that came on some used skis I had bought. I got more for the TRPs than I paid for the skis + bindings. Quote
hafilax Posted July 22, 2008 Posted July 22, 2008 Aren't there issues with crampons and the tele duckbill? Quote
PaulB Posted July 23, 2008 Posted July 23, 2008 Aren't there issues with crampons and the tele duckbill? BD Sabretooths work great with tele boots (my Scarpas, at least). It's not an ideal setup for long pitches of steep ice 'cause your front points are extended further than when using regular boots, but it'll get you up a pitch of WI3 without causing your calves too much grief. Quote
Dechristo Posted July 23, 2008 Posted July 23, 2008 my calves have the muscle definition of veal Quote
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