Anyone climb Tatoosh lately?

[pope]

And pope, congratulations on yet another day without climbing anything, what does that make? 14...15 years now?

 

Climbed 5.9/5.10 in Leavenworth last month all day off the couch. BFD. And I've climbed more than 243,000 feet off-pavement on my mountain bike since November, while balancing a career with a night job and raising three children. And your point is.....?

[olyclimber]

your mountain bike inflicted damage is unmeasurable. your mechanised terrorisations of the country side that was easily walkable by foot before dumb down the very essence of being.

 

 

 

[pope]

Most of the mountain-bike thing has been on dog-shit-covered jeep track and county gravel road (formerly a private driveway). And you are up way too late lurking for the opportunity to respond to my drivel. Ever seen fatal attraction? And your post is pregnant with tell-tale signs that you've been drinking.

[olyclimber]

i actually have a business case for being here. you, on the other hand, post the drivel with the sad hopes that someone besides you and grandpa dawg care. well i'm sure there are a few!

 

as for drinking, i wish. it might make you more interesting.

 

i do feel sorry for you and your flawed logic. but at least you've found a drum to beat, so beat on.

 

[pope]

i actually have a business case for being here.

What, you're one of the sponsors? Could you cut me a deal on some quick-draws that coordinate with my GriGri?

 

 

..you, on the other hand, post the drivel with the sad hopes that someone besides you and grandpa dawg care. well i'm sure there are a few!

 

Well there's you....

[olyclimber]

i do care about you! you're a user of cc.com after all. your opinions though, i don't really care for. i prefer hearing from people who are actually climbing the routes you bitch and moan about more. such as the gentleman cleaning tatoosh.

 

that isn't to say i don't value your opinion. but you do sound like a has been climber bitching about a changing world that you can't keep up with. heaven forbid things change from your ideal!

 

but keep it up! it really seems like you're making a difference.

[fenderfour]

Just wanted to see how people feel about the bolt. I climbed the route for the first time 2 days after Chris placed the bolt. I chose not to use the bolt, instead using a C3, and a large nut. Both bomber placements. As with a lot of routes with a bolt next to a gear placement, you can either choose to clip it or move past it. I do give props to Chris for cleaning the route. I'm sure he gave a lot of his own time in making the route more accessable to all. Cudos to you. I was more worried about someone chopping it and causing an issue. If people most people spoke out against the bolt, it would be best for the person who placed it, to remove it. That way we could avoid contoversy. IMO sometimes its best to speak about an issue before someone does someting stupid. Have fun climbing the route and bring lots of small pieces and runners!

 

In the future, I suggest coming right out about the real reason you posted. There's no reason to be coy in a semi-anonymous forum.

[G-spotter]

There's no reason to be coy in a semi-anonymous forum.

 

Unless you're flirting... and sheep can't type anyway.

[bwrts]

it is my understanding that the "new loan bolt" opened (safely protected) a new direct start. Correct??

-there certainly are gear placements below the bolt but I do not recall any above the bolt until one is on the ledge.

I do remember climbing the formerly dirty pitch via from the right, although the memory of this climb is hazy at best...was not nearly as stellar as the climb is now.

 

Whatever the case, BCD did the area a favor by cleaning up this neglected good pitch...which is definitely more likely to be enjoyed by more people. Never understood why a little dirt turned people away from good climbing.

 

Which leads me to a side note: Northern Dihedral on Snow Creek wall is one cool feature choked with dirt and moss... yet it still sees occasional ascents (worth it if you enjoy all types of rock climbing).

As for cleaning this one up to say, Outerspace-like cleanliness, GOOD F'n LUCK! The dirt will continue to migrate down until you excavate the entire hillside with it...

In other words, cleaning this route is not really an option.

 

I say, good job and thanks for all your efforts BCD.

[RuMR]

you like dirt, dontcha, ya dirt scientist... bawahahahaha

[lancegranite]

And pope, congratulations on yet another day without climbing anything, what does that make? 14...15 years now?

 

Climbed 5.9/5.10 in Leavenworth last month all day off the couch. BFD. And I've climbed more than 243,000 feet off-pavement on my mountain bike since November, while balancing a career with a night job and raising three children. And your point is.....?

 

My point is I choose to not to constantly berate and belittle people who are actively climbing, maintaining, and devloping local routes.

Either get climbing or leave.

If you were actively out there climbing, I would respect your opinion.

But since you do not, you just detract from the people who do. Climb and contribute, or leave. It's simple.

 

 

These people do these routes for many reasons, some I agree with, some I'd rather just steer clear of. (you know who you are...) Some of them hate and despise the very people who climb the routes they work so hard to develop, and people love the routes anyways!

Whatever the reason, I will not stand in their way or try to stop anybody from these activity for one simple reason:

It is a freedom that we all have the right to enjoy

 

Do I care if a guy wants to add a bolt? no.

Do I care if someone builds a trail for his bike? no.

Do I care if some person constantly tries to take away my right to choose to do these things? Yes.

Do not fuck with freedom, it's real, real hard go get it back.

 

 

 

[pope]

My point is I choose to not to constantly berate and belittle people who are actively climbing, maintaining, and devloping local routes.

Either get climbing or leave.

 

What are you talking about? I object to adding a bolt to an established climb and suddenly I'm berating and belittling people?

 

If you were actively out there climbing, I would respect your opinion.

But since you do not, you just detract from the people who do. Climb and contribute, or leave. It's simple.

 

I climb as much as my current obligations allow. My participation in climbing over recent decades has developed my perspective.

 

 

Whatever the reason, I will not stand in their way or try to stop anybody from these activity for one simple reason:

It is a freedom that we all have the right to enjoy

 

Do I care if a guy wants to add a bolt? no.

Do I care if someone builds a trail for his bike? no.

Do I care if some person constantly tries to take away my right to choose to do these things? Yes.

Do not fuck with freedom, it's real, real hard go get it back.

 

Freedom. You say you value it, but I'm not sure. If I were to chop a bunch of jugs into your favorite 5.12 pitch, opening through my hard work access to those who otherwise wouldn't contemplate an ascent, I'll bet you'd object. And yet, that kind of liberty is precisely what you're defending.

 

Prior to the bolt, many degrees of freedom existed. People could deal with the suspect protection (as countless have), back off, improve their skills until they were ready to top-rope the route, etc. Adding a bolt, one could argue, diminishes this freedom. What we have now is simply a safer route at the expense of altering the very nature of the climb so that one must encounter the kind of engineering that dominates the abundance of generic sport climbs found at other crags. With an additional bolt, one diminishes freedom by decreasing the variety of experiences available in rock climbing.

[Raindawg]

And pope, congratulations on yet another day without climbing anything, what does that make? 14...15 years now?

 

Dude...you're a mess. You think you know "pope" and his committment to climbing over much of his life? You obviously don't.

 

My point is I choose to not to constantly berate and belittle people who are actively climbing, maintaining, and devloping local routes.

 

Your choice. You sound like you subscribe to the bogus "it's all good" philosophy. Real world says: "it ain't all good". Some of us will argue that some "routes" shouldn't be climbed, maintained, or "devloped". Have you read through all the comments on this thread??? On many threads on this site? Have you noticed that not everyone agrees?

 

Either get climbing or leave.

 

Pretty dang funny coming from a guy who below advocates:

"It is a freedom that we all have the right to enjoy"

 

 

If you were actively out there climbing, I would respect your opinion..

 

Hey freedom-boy...you got spy camera's everywhere recording who's going climbing, where and when, and how much so you can determine who deserves your "respect"????

I ain't speakin' for "pope", but I know him really well, and I'm pretty sure that he's not out looking for your respect.

 

By the way, how often does one have to climb before they're a real climber and can have the freedom to have an opinion?

Big Lou ain't doin' much these days...I guess he should just shut up. Same thing with Reinhold Messner.. sit-down! And both of them probably have some pretty critical things to say about climbing.

 

 

Climb and contribute, or leave. It's simple.

 

It's simple....you don't have a clue.

Hey everybody! Freedom boy wants us to leave if we don't agree with him! Hey! You ain't the boss of me!

 

Whatever the reason, I will not stand in their way or try to stop anybody from these activity for one simple reason:

It is a freedom that we all have the right to enjoy

 

When did that happen?

Why can't I build a scenic picnic table in the Enchantments or have a bon-fire in the meadows at Paradise? Why can't I rap-bolt the cracks on Outer Space so it will be safer for everyone and so I won't have to carry so much gear? Why can't I chip holds to make hard climbs easier? How about chopping down a few trees in Camp 4 to build my own cabin so I won't have to camp with the hippies?

 

Actually, I'd try to stop someone from doing any of those activities.

 

Do I care if some person constantly tries to take away my right to choose to do these things? Yes.

Do not f*ck with freedom, it's real, real hard go get it back.

 

It's your very attitude that's going to cause restrictions and closures.

Sorry to break the news to you, but in the real world, you can't just do anything you want. Some of us care in ways you obviously don't and we're not going to leave or sit around when we feel things are going astray. Anarchy is for losers.

 

 

 

[lancegranite]

I totally agree with everything you say!

It looks like I was mistaken on several points, thanks for setting things straight.

 

 

[Mattski]

Egos versus public service, looks like a job for Judge Judy or fight night. Just go climbing and stop surfing the web, it might help mellow out what happened to be an improvement to an increasingly crowded area.

[Good2Go]

Great route! Thanks much to BCD for the work and for covering the cost of the hardware. Love those clip anchors.

 

I'd say cleaning all the dirt out of the cracks did far more to soften the difficulty of the climb than adding the new bolt. Strange how the bolt nazis never seem to complain about that though.

 

Thanks also to whoever put the new bolt anchors in at the top of Roger's Corner/bottom of BoC. That slung tree always seemed sketchy to me.

[tradclimbguy]

Jesus Christ! It's just a F$#@%ing bolt at a crag. Nobody did the direct start anyway. And for the three of you that did on crappy gear in a crack that didn't really exist before it got cleaned... Good for you.

 

Over the last month I've seen nearly 20 teams on the newly cleaned climb and it's GREAT!!! Before that you rarely saw anyone do Tatoosh with the tree and scary boulders at the top.

 

Thank You for the clean up. Heck even I "question" the bolt but it is realy new direct start in it's cleaned state and I just keep remembering how Index is still just a crag and not some pristine mountain wilderness area. Be glad when people clean routes up or at least go climb Tatoosh and post pics of your hardman status as you climb past the bolt...

[mountainmatt]

Did the route for the first time yesterday. The direct start is the best part of the entire route, and I thought the bolt was well placed. Thanks for cleaning a great start to the route!

[counterfeitfake]

The direct start is gnar as fuck.

[pope]

Jesus Christ! It's just a F$#@%ing bolt at a crag.

Correction: it's yet another bolt added to a climb that has been climbed without a bolt.

 

 

Over the last month I've seen nearly 20 teams on the newly cleaned climb and it's GREAT!!! Before that you rarely saw anyone do Tatoosh with the tree and scary boulders at the top.

Isn't that neat? More traffic! That's what I really wanna see!

 

 

... and I just keep remembering how Index is still just a crag and not some pristine mountain wilderness area....

Index is what we make it. What's acceptable at Index quickly becomes an ethical standard in the mountains as well. Hey "tradclimbguy", maybe you should select a more appropriate name for yourself.