flashclimber Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 I recently climbed it with the boulder start. Anyone else see a problem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpinfox Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 I climbed p1 last weekend. Â I had climbed it once before, but it was a long time ago. Â What's the problem? Hold broke off or sumfin? Â Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 Yes. It's now clean and quite good. Lots of finger cracks. I stepped right from Thin Fingers just a few feet up (below the lone bolt). The whole route could probably be led on 7 yellow or green aliens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
counterfeitfake Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 I saw a fixed line on it a while ago and had heard someone cleaned it. So what is the "problem"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlickWilly Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 I recently climbed it with the boulder start. Anyone else see a problem? Â Yeah, but I dont consider it a problem. I like it there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 I think the new bolt on the bottom is the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
backcountrydog Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 i dont. i cleaned that pile. there werent even gear placements there when i began. the bolt is there to keep the climber from decking if he/she falls going for the top. the highest gear placement was gardened out of compacted sand/rock/dirt. the right side of the placement is hollow. did you tap it with a hammer to investigate? i placed the bolt because i was very familiar with the placements, how they came about, and the rock surrounding them. i talked about it with a lot of folks i climb with (almost all of climb well above that level). its not an unfounded placement. you can opt to not clip it. its a great pitch. so far everyone ive talked to who i see climbing say the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Off_White Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 Sounds well thought out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenderfour Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 Good on you backcountrydog. Â I'm not going to get involved in bolting ethics, but I will say that it's good that you showed up and presented a reasonable argument for the new bolt you placed. Â Prepare to get flamed by everyone else, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 Chris/ BackcountryDog: Â Thanks for cleaning it up! Also cool of you to post on this spray-infested den of craziness. I had tons of fun on the newly cleaned route. It's longer than it looks (I think you need a 70m to TR it). Â For what it's worth from one random climber, I thought the bolt was perfectly fine. There is a spot below it where you can get in a good .5 camalot/red alien for your first piece, by reaching around the fin from the left. Kinda a blind placement, but it's good. Above that, it seems totally appropriate for a bolt to be in place. I remember it as a flaring corner with no crack in it, and groundfall potential mantling onto the first big ledge if there were no bolt there. Â Flashclimber... if you want to talk about bolted cracks @ Index, check out Angorra Grotto, not Tatoosh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 Backcountrydog, I guess my post came across as I personally have a problem with the bolt, which I don't. It seemed warranted and well located. I was just answering the "what's the problem" question everyone was asking or at least what I think the OP is getting at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanb Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 I've climbed it twice post clean, pre bolt. Its a great route and I'm glad somebody had the vision to see its potential. Â My partner led the bottom laying back the flake after placing the red alien, this seemed pretty spicy. I led it as a flare (staying behind the flake) and was able to place the red alien and another (green or blue) higher up. Â The rock didn't seem great for either placement and will probably get worse as dirt washes down there. I can't argue with a bolt there, particularly if the placements are as hollow as backcountrydog says. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chucK Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 I've led it a bunch of times (pre bolt). There used to be a pin in the beginning flare, before the dirt mantle. Is the pin still there? Â I think the whole enchilada is pretty fun, but massive rockfall up around p2-3 a couple of years ago has me a little worried about ever heading back up thataway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter_Puget Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 Chuck - Â DId you lead the section with the bolt pre-bolt?..wasn't the pin off to the right in another crack? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chucK Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 I don't know where the new bolt is. Perhaps Alpinfox has picture? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter_Puget Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 Just wanted to clarify given the topic of this thread- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
counterfeitfake Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 Now that the rock has fallen, shouldn't it be less worrying? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter_Puget Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 The Tatoosh as referred to in this thread does not have the p2-3 that ChucK is talking about. He is referring to Free At Last. By the way the final pitches of the full Narrow Arrow route also have some big loose blocks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpinfox Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 Â When I said I had recently climbed the first pitch of Tatoosh, I meant the first pitch of Free At Last. I thought they were one and the same. Â I don't remember a bolt, so I'm guessing I didn't do the pitch in question. Â I don't have any photos that I think would be helpful in this discussion, but THIS might help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
counterfeitfake Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 Yeah, I too would be interested in knowing exactly what we're talking about. Where is Free At Last? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashclimber Posted July 10, 2008 Author Share Posted July 10, 2008 Just wanted to see how people feel about the bolt. I climbed the route for the first time 2 days after Chris placed the bolt. I chose not to use the bolt, instead using a C3, and a large nut. Both bomber placements. As with a lot of routes with a bolt next to a gear placement, you can either choose to clip it or move past it. I do give props to Chris for cleaning the route. I'm sure he gave a lot of his own time in making the route more accessable to all. Cudos to you. I was more worried about someone chopping it and causing an issue. If people most people spoke out against the bolt, it would be best for the person who placed it, to remove it. That way we could avoid contoversy. IMO sometimes its best to speak about an issue before someone does someting stupid. Have fun climbing the route and bring lots of small pieces and runners! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancegranite Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 (edited) Most people who complain about a suspect bolt usually do not climb with a hammer. The few of us who do have hickory and steel in tow understand the random bolt placement and the bullshit that will eventually come beacuse of it. They rest of you just see the bolt and make up your own self gratifying backstory. Â When we clean your routes for you, we use a hammer to really see what lies under the surface. Sometimes a nice looking crack is total shit, a partner once had gallons of freezing water jet out of a hole he was drilling on lead, the crack you galliantly dance up was cleaned by a guy clawing his way through the shit, his eyes, ears and mouth full of dirt and moss, just so the rest can enjoy it. Â Try it sometime to fully realize just how rotten, hollow, and generally manky "bomber rock" can be. People like BCD who clean up existing routes for everyone to enjoy are doing the work most of you would never do. Â There is no FA glory, no guidebook "fame" for guys like BCD, only the satisfaction of a job well done. Â I bid you good day. Â Â Â Edited July 10, 2008 by lancegranite Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlickWilly Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 Most people who complain about a suspect bolt usually do not climb with a hammer. The few of us who do have hickory and steel in tow understand the random bolt placement and the bullshit that will eventually come beacuse of it. They rest of you just see the bolt and make up your own self gratifying backstory. Â When we clean your routes for you, we use a hammer to really see what lies under the surface. Sometimes a nice looking crack is total shit, a partner once had water jet out of a hole he was drilling on lead, the crack you galliantly dance up was cleaned by a guy clawing his way through the shit, his eyes, ears and mouth full of dirt and moss, just so the rest can enjoy it. Â Try it sometime to fully realize just how rotten, hollow, and generally manky "bomber rock" can be. People like BCD who clean up existing routes for everyone to enjoy are doing the work most of you would never do. I have much respect for the former, and very little for the latter. I bid you good day. Â Â Â Word - you nailed it. The bolt is warranted and a welcome addition IMHO. Thanks Backcountrydog for the work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pope Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 Backcountrydog, I guess my post came across as I personally have a problem with the bolt, which I don't. It seemed warranted and well located. I was just answering the "what's the problem" question everyone was asking or at least what I think the OP is getting at. Â Yet another route climbed a brazillion times without a bolt and without an accident.......and now we need a bolt. Of course, one can choose not to clip the damn thing. What a joke. Backcountrydawg, your efforts would be appreciated if you had just cleaned the route instead of substantially changing the nature of the climb. Argus, no need to apologize for protesting yet another attempt to transform the proud tradition of rock climbing into a replication of a top-rope ascent of the REI plastic wall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancegranite Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 And pope, congratulations on yet another day without climbing anything, what does that make? 14...15 years now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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