Northwest Forest Pass violation

[EC_O]

Okay, I'm pretty sure everybody's seen this topic before but...my quick searching only turned up old posts. And since I'm now the proud owner of a new yellow ticket ("Failure to Pay Use Fee"), wondered if anyone has dared NOT paid theirs? Or even contested it? Not totally against use fees, though I think its double taxation bullshit, of course.... I was just lazy that day and didn't get the day pass.

[fresh]

I tried it. Got a ticket up NF Teanaway road and didn't bother to contest or pay. Yakima Federal Court sent me a friendly request to please appear (or send the money)... so I'd probably recommend dealing with it one way or another

[sobo]

I've gotten warnings before, but I DID contest every one. Be PROACTIVE in your dissent. I wrote a standard complaint/not gonna pay it letter, based off the verbiage from Scott Silvers website (some here may call him a crack, but I'm with him on this BULLSHIT "demonstration" fee program. You could do a search on this site with Fee Demo in the title and use "newer than 7 years" as the timeframe. I'd do it for you and send you the link, but I'm crashing on a deadline for work this weekend.

[DPS]

Funny thing, I was just cleaning out my glove box and found two of these tickets that I had forgotten about. The tickets must be about 8 years old. I have not been carted away in handcuffs yet.

[sobo]

All right, I couldn't stand it. Here's a thread from a few years ago with some creative ways to beat/fight the ticket (John Frieh's is especially creative). That thread links to an even older thread about this shit fee demo program. Wade through all the shit in both threads. You'll have time to do so before you get your "friendly reminder" in the mail.

 

This pic from mtnnut's post is classic!

 

PS: Scott Silvers' website is wildwilderness.org

Check out this link.

[mike1]

I've gotten warnings before, but I DID contest every one. Be PROACTIVE in your dissent. I wrote a standard complaint/not gonna pay it letter, based off the verbiage from Scott Silvers website (some here may call him a crack, but I'm with him on this BULLSHIT "demonstration" fee program. You could do a search on this site with Fee Demo in the title and use "newer than 7 years" as the timeframe. I'd do it for you and send you the link, but I'm crashing on a deadline for work this weekend.

I take it you never paid or appeared in court?

I had an unpaid parking ticket end up on my DMV record. I couldn't renew my registration until I paid the ticket. I wonder what tools the Fee Demo folks have to force the money from your pocket...

[sobo]

Nope, never paid (haven't actually been ticketed yet), but I write them back on every warning. I seem to get a lot of them. Mebbe they have me "bracketed" and will send in black helicopters on my next "infraction."

 

I've had unpaid parking tickets (by an ex-GF using my car) keep me from getting a home loan. Her $15 ticket in my truck turned into a $130 settlement to get my loan approved. Goddman bitch, knew there was a reason I dumped her...

 

AFAIK, I think they can only try to take you to court over the Fee "Demo" (bullshit!) thing.

But ask ivan. I think he really got raked over the coals for his ticket a coupla years ago.

 

ivan-

that was you, wasn't it?

[ivan]

AFAIK, I think they can only try to take you to court over the Fee "Demo" (bullshit!) thing.

But ask ivan. I think he really got raked over the coals for his ticket a coupla years ago.

 

ivan-

that was you, wasn't it?

yes, they took my to court over it, though i don't know if it was the worst "raking" imaginable - basically i just bought the pass before i showed up, gave it to the prosecutor, and he sent me home - i did miss a full day of work over it though, but that was mostly spent in a park drinking

 

now i practice guerilla terrorism and dismantle/destroy every sign i think i can get away w/ - gives you a reason to carry a saw and wrenches

[111]

Just to clarify, it isnt a demo any more. that ended a while ago. now it is just a standard fee because it worked so well

[Tod]

I'll back that up. It's not a "Fee Demo" anymore. Any tickets issued during the fee demo were mostly tickets that could not be enforced (they were demonstration tickets).

 

Now that the Forest Pass is no longer a demo, it's law, the tickets are enforceable and the state/feds can come after you for not paying.

 

It sucks, though a pass is not required at all trailheads. Basically for the pass to be required, it needs to be an improved trailhead. This means that if it has an outhouse, it's improved and a pass is required:

 

FEDERAL LANDS RECREATION ENHANCEMENT ACT

SEC. 3. RECREATION FEE AUTHORITY

f) Standard Amenity Recreation Fee.--Except as limited by subsection (d), the Secretary may charge a standard amenity recreation fee for Federal recreational lands and waters under the jurisdiction of the Bureau of Land Management, the Bureau of Reclamation, or the Forest Service, but only at the following:

(4) An area--

(D) that contains ALL of the following amenities:

(i) Designated developed parking.

(ii) A permanent toilet facility.

(iii) A permanent trash receptacle.

(iv) Interpretive sign, exhibit, or kiosk.

(v) Picnic tables.

(vi) Security services.

 

Keep writing your congress people and tell them you want them to get rid of the Recreation Access Tax (RAT).

[rob]

FEDERAL LANDS RECREATION ENHANCEMENT ACT

SEC. 3. RECREATION FEE AUTHORITY

f) Standard Amenity Recreation Fee.--Except as limited by subsection (d), the Secretary may charge a standard amenity recreation fee for Federal recreational lands and waters under the jurisdiction of the Bureau of Land Management, the Bureau of Reclamation, or the Forest Service, but only at the following:

(4) An area--

(D) that contains ALL of the following amenities:

(i) Designated developed parking.

(ii) A permanent toilet facility.

(iii) A permanent trash receptacle.

(iv) Interpretive sign, exhibit, or kiosk.

(v) Picnic tables.

(vi) Security services.

 

I don't believe the stuart lake TH has picnic tables, does it?

[ken4ord]

I don't think any of the parking lots have security services and if they do they pretty damn worthless.

[mr.radon]

I have not paid a ticket yet. The first four I got I ignored, but I kept getting the letters. Last letter was five years ago.

My solution was to grab an old set of plates off a junk car (not in my name). Whenever I pull into a parking lot I swap plates real quick, I lock the car and cover the VIN number. So far the 15 some odd tickets I've gotten have never been traced back to me.

 

[Crillz]

I've seen cars with no license plates at some trail heads. Seams like a good idea - what are they going to do, hang around and wait for you to come back?

 

Also, this way Mr. Randoms don't take your plates.

 

Edited June 24, 2008 by Crillz

[lizard_brain]

I had a permit, forgot to hang it, got a ticket, didn't pay it, got a nasty letter.

 

I called the number in the letter, talked to the clerk at the courthouse.

 

I faxed him a copy of my permit, front and back, with a copy of my ticket. I was nice to him, he was nice to me.

 

Case dismissed.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

 

Gosh, that is so much easier than just paying $30 a year!

[lizard_brain]

I have not paid a ticket yet. The first four I got I ignored, but I kept getting the letters. Last letter was five years ago.

My solution was to grab an old set of plates off a junk car (not in my name). Whenever I pull into a parking lot I swap plates real quick, I lock the car and cover the VIN number. So far the 15 some odd tickets I've gotten have never been traced back to me.

 

You're an example to us all.

[mr.radon]

Lets be clear about the plates. They were not ripped off some car at random. I bought a parts car from a guy in Leavenworth, hauled it over the pass. I never got a title for the parts car. It had plates on it and that's what I use.

When I was done with the car I used a Sawsall to turn it into scrap metal and took it to a metal recycler.

I lived in CO for years. They would shoot people if they tried to pass a similar program in CO. The rangers in CO think we are crazy to put up with this program. If this were valid at all Nat. Forests I'd gladly particapate. But it is not. So many people here in the Pacific North West do not understand that in other states NO ONE pays for access to PUBLIC lands. Only us dumb lemmings in WA and OR have to do that.

Edited June 24, 2008 by mr.radon

[sobo]

From my linked thread above from 2004:

OK, I'll admit it, I'm cornfoozed...

 

I thought that this past March/April, the Access Fund, along with other supporters, won the "repeal" of the NW Forest Pass on FS lands (only?) thru Congressional petitioning. Is that not correct? Beginning in October, the NWFP is kaput on FS lands?

 

I know that doesn't help those now being ticketed, but isn't this crock of shit circling the drain?

 

My own personal view: I bought a pass the very first year it came out, thinking the logic of what was being said about the pass was true. I later tuned in to various websites and heard conservationist lectures that caused me to change my opinion. I never bought another one after the first year. And I drive around with that original pass still in the window, just to piss 'em off/make a statement.

 

I've never been ticketed, but have gotten warnings on at least two occasions, maybe three. I wrote letters, based largely in part on material culled from Scott Silver's site, to the FS and flatly stated I refused to pay, citing the myriad of reasons provided on Scott's site. I have never heard from the FS since, and this was at least two or three years ago.

 

Granted I didn't usually go to oft-trammelled THs, and even less so now that I'm a daddy to a two-year-old. But from what I've seen at the THs where I do go, my money hasn't ended up there.

 

PS: I do pay the $5/day parking fee at State Parks (like at Peshastin Pinnacles, say), because I can actually see what my money has bought (working toilet complete with TP, irrigated lawn, picnic tables, gravel parking lot, etc.).

 

I thought this shit got repealed (on NFS lands) a few years ago?

[mr.radon]

No, but it was made perminent. It is no longer a demo program. However, only the national forests in the PNW are required to pay. We are lemmings.

[mr.radon]

Here is the web site to go to for more protest the NWF Pass

http://www.freeourforests.org/

 

I can't believe anyone on this site buy's these passes. More people need to know that these passes are only for Or and WA. All other states access to national forests is FREE. Only in WA and OR do we have to pay. Please write and call your senators and Representatives to complain.

[Cornfed]

It is $30 for a year. I've spent this a hundred times buying a round of shots or a case of beer. Small price to pay to support something that we all love--access to the outdoors. If you are in Washington State, you don't even pay income tax (assuming you have income), most everyone else does. Every year when I buy my pass, I consider it a donation to support the trails and trailheads I use--just like the Access Fund or the Northwest Avalanche Center. All of this stuff cost money to maintain. I'll bet if you volunteer for a day clearing trails, you could negotiate next year's pass.

[sobo]

You've missed the point, Cornfed. Thirty dollars per annum isn't going to set me back very far, either. I also support AF and I've been volunteering in Mountain Rescue for more than 5 years now. The issue is not how much it costs, but rather the fact that it costs anything in the first place. The fee is another tax, one which I already pay every year when I file my IRS 1040.

 

The fact that you believe your "donation" goes to support trails and stuff is just more government disinformation. The trailheads where I've seen the signs and gotten warnings don't even have any "amenities" for which I would have ostensibly paid, were I to allow myself to be swindled out of my $30.

 

Your money goes to support timber sales wherein the government sells the timber below market value. It also goes to support actions/policies/regulations designed to benefit groups/organizations the likes of which I do not support. It goes for enforcement of a misguided program that isn't needed in the first place. Lastly, it was a program that was never commentd upon by teh users - that's you and me. It was attached as a rider to an omnibus spending bill years ago, and by virtue of its fraudulent perpetuation, it became a law. And it's a discriminatory one at that. So in my mind, it's more than "just $30 a year." It's a principle.

[catbirdseat]

Here is the web site to go to for more protest the NWF Pass

http://www.freeourforests.org/

 

I can't believe anyone on this site buy's these passes. More people need to know that these passes are only for Or and WA. All other states access to national forests is FREE. Only in WA and OR do we have to pay. Please write and call your senators and Representatives to complain.

You are wrong about that. California has a similar program by a different name.

[mr.radon]

It is $30 for a year. I've spent this a hundred times buying a round of shots or a case of beer. Small price to pay to support something that we all love--access to the outdoors. If you are in Washington State, you don't even pay income tax (assuming you have income), most everyone else does. Every year when I buy my pass, I consider it a donation to support the trails and trailheads I use--just like the Access Fund or the Northwest Avalanche Center. All of this stuff cost money to maintain. I'll bet if you volunteer for a day clearing trails, you could negotiate next year's pass.

That's insain. In CO I paid income and sales tax but as a percentage of my income it was far less then WA. At least in WA I can go to OR an buy big ticket items and get out of the sales tax. Right now my monthly tax on my house is more then my payment. It used to be $243/month, now $564/month. Also, because of Brightwater I pay $65/month sewer.

Bu that is not the point. The point is the FEE program is UNAmerican. What is to prevent them from increasing this to $100/year? Nothing.