TIBET

[kevbone]

Who is the moron who allowed the Olympic Games to be held in China in the first place?

 

Well, the precedent was set in 1936.

 

 

Well....china has not changed in hundreds of years.....China in 1936 and China in 2008....same.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

Who is the moron who allowed the Olympic Games to be held in China in the first place?

 

Well, the precedent was set in 1936.

 

 

Well....china has not changed in hundreds of years.....China in 1936 and China in 2008....same.

 

Man you are dense.

[dmuja]

billcoe

tHaNks fOr tHaT ..wtf?? I think

Edited April 10, 2008 by dmuja

[AlpineK]

I can't speak for Chuck H but I will say this..

 

We non-Tibetans should really thank grog, Buddha or whatever and take note of the current situation regarding Tibet and learn from it if possible. In case we have forgotten, China is still a communist state - and it is on the rise. Communist states operate on 2 fundamental principles, namely force (re: control, domination, violence) and propaganda (re: lies, indoctrination, "brain washing"). Both are on full display at this time in the "Tibetan Autonomous Region". If the U.S. continues to go in its current direction (decline), those of us who have bought into the West's naiveté with regard to China's "modernization", or worse yet have directly bought into China's propaganda in this regard are in for a very rude awakening. The "right" has it's eyes closed because they are salivating at the prospect of doing business in the vast China marketplace. The "left" has it's eyes closed because it sympathizes with socialist politics. Neither a traditionally right nor left approach will serve us adequately when dealing with China - they are both too self serving and shortsighted.

 

I can't believe that I actually agree 100% with something you wrote! Very well put!

 

That was a good post.

[tvashtarkatena]

I can't speak for Chuck H but I will say this..

 

We non-Tibetans should really thank grog, Buddha or whatever and take note of the current situation regarding Tibet and learn from it if possible. In case we have forgotten, China is still a communist state - and it is on the rise. Communist states operate on 2 fundamental principles, namely force (re: control, domination, violence) and propaganda (re: lies, indoctrination, "brain washing"). Both are on full display at this time in the "Tibetan Autonomous Region". If the U.S. continues to go in its current direction (decline), those of us who have bought into the West's naiveté with regard to China's "modernization", or worse yet have directly bought into China's propaganda in this regard are in for a very rude awakening. The "right" has it's eyes closed because they are salivating at the prospect of doing business in the vast China marketplace. The "left" has it's eyes closed because it sympathizes with socialist politics. Neither a traditionally right nor left approach will serve us adequately when dealing with China - they are both too self serving and shortsighted.

 

I can't believe that I actually agree 100% with something you wrote! Very well put!

 

That was a good post.

 

Guess you aint' been to China lately. China operates on one fundamental principle: money.

 

Same as us.

[ivan]

 

Ivan, the "promise of a world wide exportation of communism and the overthrow of all capitalist nations" is a central tenet of communism. They believe in and teach a doctrine of continuous and violent revolution. The current twist is simply that they are using economics as the point of their spear. Back in my twenties as an dorky politico anarchist type, I had "friends" who were commies. In a moment of candor one once told me that "should our revolution actually succeed here, we would of coarse have to kill you because you're politics are poison" (he was not smiling when he said this btw).

 

Communism is always something to fear. And I consider myself far left for the most part.

china's hardly your archetype communist state - for fucks sake, they've abandoned all the central economic concepts of communism and just kept the despotic elements that were in keeping w/ their ancient traditions of government

 

fearing communism is weak-sauce. history has clearly shown that communism doesn't create an international brotherhood. the communist nations of vietnam, cambodia, china and russia all fought wars amongst themselves and only managed anything like cooperation when being attacked by the west. china isn't funding the cominterm like the ussr in the 20s/30s. mainstream belief in communism died there after the cultural revolution just like in russia after stalin. china's not trying to do shit but get rich now (whihc i'll grant, can still put our nations on a collision coure, since the lord jesus has clearly given us the right to the riches first).

[tvashtarkatena]

 

Ivan, the "promise of a world wide exportation of communism and the overthrow of all capitalist nations" is a central tenet of communism. They believe in and teach a doctrine of continuous and violent revolution. The current twist is simply that they are using economics as the point of their spear. Back in my twenties as an dorky politico anarchist type, I had "friends" who were commies. In a moment of candor one once told me that "should our revolution actually succeed here, we would of coarse have to kill you because you're politics are poison" (he was not smiling when he said this btw).

 

Communism is always something to fear. And I consider myself far left for the most part.

china's hardly your archetype communist state - for fucks sake, they've abandoned all the central economic concepts of communism and just kept the despotic elements that were in keeping w/ their ancient traditions of government

 

fearing communism is weak-sauce. history has clearly shown that communism doesn't create an international brotherhood. the communist nations of vietnam, cambodia, china and russia all fought wars amongst themselves and only managed anything like cooperation when being attacked by the west. china isn't funding the cominterm like the ussr in the 20s/30s. mainstream belief in communism died there after the cultural revolution just like in russia after stalin. china's not trying to do shit but get rich now (whihc i'll grant, can still put our nations on a collision coure, since the lord jesus has clearly given us the right to the riches first).

 

I'm gonna have to agree here. The old Commie Conspiracy model is long and rightfully dead. What the U.S. has to fear from China is what it's currently experiencing: competition for resources, jobs, and trade. Eventually, this will settle out; our both the stuff we buy and the stuff they buy will be about the same price (more), and we'll earn about the same average wage (less, in our case). Until then, go get that Blue Light Special.

[dmuja]

I can't speak for Chuck H but I will say this..

 

We non-Tibetans should really thank grog, Buddha or whatever and take note of the current situation regarding Tibet and learn from it if possible. In case we have forgotten, China is still a communist state - and it is on the rise. Communist states operate on 2 fundamental principles, namely force (re: control, domination, violence) and propaganda (re: lies, indoctrination, "brain washing"). Both are on full display at this time in the "Tibetan Autonomous Region". If the U.S. continues to go in its current direction (decline), those of us who have bought into the West's naiveté with regard to China's "modernization", or worse yet have directly bought into China's propaganda in this regard are in for a very rude awakening. The "right" has it's eyes closed because they are salivating at the prospect of doing business in the vast China marketplace. The "left" has it's eyes closed because it sympathizes with socialist politics. Neither a traditionally right nor left approach will serve us adequately when dealing with China - they are both too self serving and shortsighted.

 

I can't believe that I actually agree 100% with something you wrote! Very well put!

 

That was a good post.

 

Guess you aint' been to China lately. China operates on one fundamental principle: money.

 

Same as us.

 

Yes China has been accused of betraying the "true communist doctrines" recently in more ways than one btw. But to even say so you would still be in great danger of being imprisoned for years, tortured, or even executed - varies depending on youre prominence etc, as a public figure. We don't really have to list the recent human rights record do we?

[ivan]

Yes China has been accused of betraying the "true communist doctrines" recently in more ways than one btw. But to even say so you would still be in great danger of being imprisoned for years, tortured, or even executed - varies depending on youre prominence etc, as a public figure. We don't really have to list the recent human rights record do we?

again, this isn't the fault of communism, but the thousands of years of acquiesence the chinese have had for totalitarian governments

[AlpineK]

Guess you aint' been to China lately. China operates on one fundamental principle: money.

 

Same as us.

 

The US shares some of the same issues that China does, but here you're a lot less likely to be executed or imprisoned for voicing descent.

 

Earlier in this thread the subject of Native Americans came up. Sure even today some folks don't respect them, but there have been a lot of folks both native and nonnative that have gone up against the US government. Guess what...they didn't get thrown in prison for making public stands against the government. Try that in China and you'll see a gun pointed at you.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

Guess you aint' been to China lately. China operates on one fundamental principle: money.

 

Same as us.

 

The US shares some of the same issues that China does, but here you're a lot less likely to be executed or imprisoned for voicing descent.

 

I voiced descent on a climb once. Everyone called me a pussy for turning around and threatened to imprison me in the nearest crevasse for a slow execution.

[Doug]

Their is presidents for that.

[ivan]

Earlier in this thread the subject of Native Americans came up. Sure even today some folks don't respect them, but there have been a lot of folks both native and nonnative that have gone up against the US government. Guess what...they didn't get thrown in prison for making public stands against the government. Try that in China and you'll see a gun pointed at you.

that wasn't the experience of AIM members in the '70s - still, i'd concede your larger point, of course we don't use tanks to run over protestors on a regular basis (did shoot up some protestors at kent state though, and that whole anti-civil rights thing in the south was a weeee bit violent).

[AlpineK]

Guess you aint' been to China lately. China operates on one fundamental principle: money.

 

Same as us.

 

The US shares some of the same issues that China does, but here you're a lot less likely to be executed or imprisoned for voicing descent.

 

I voiced descent on a climb once. Everyone called me a pussy for turning around and threatened to imprison me in the nearest crevasse for a slow execution.

 

Well I'm guessing you aren't posting from inside a crevasse.

[StevenSeagal]

Guess you aint' been to China lately. China operates on one fundamental principle: money.

 

Same as us.

 

The US shares some of the same issues that China does, but here you're a lot less likely to be executed or imprisoned for voicing descent.

 

I voiced descent on a climb once. Everyone called me a pussy for turning around and threatened to imprison me in the nearest crevasse for a slow execution.

 

Well I'm guessing you aren't posting from inside a crevasse.

 

His head might be.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

Guess you aint' been to China lately. China operates on one fundamental principle: money.

 

Same as us.

 

The US shares some of the same issues that China does, but here you're a lot less likely to be executed or imprisoned for voicing descent.

 

I voiced descent on a climb once. Everyone called me a pussy for turning around and threatened to imprison me in the nearest crevasse for a slow execution.

 

Well I'm guessing you aren't posting from inside a crevasse.

 

His head might be.

 

Quiet Mr. Aikido man or I'll put my foot in your crevass.

 

[Bug]

:lmao: :lmao:

Now that's good spray.

[Dechristo]

For Olympic athletes, the political shit runs downhill.

 

Mr Rogge’s call for Beijing to abide by its promise to address human rights was given short shrift by Beijing, which bluntly told him to keep politics out of the Games.

Jacques Rogge, the president of the International Olympic Committee (IOC), said that competitors were free to express their political views but faced sanctions if they indulged in propaganda.