Find the Bolts Dawg:

[RuMR]

BitChBitChBitChBitChBitChBitChBitCh

Edited March 13, 2008 by Off_White

[ivan]

You know this to be true: people are like onions Ivan, under the skin, we all have layers. Some of us have more and some of us have less shielding them than others is all.

did you steal that from shrek?

 

why not say we're like parfaits? man, just saying the word parfait got my mouth all drooling and everything!

[ivan]

Moderators....can you fix the sizing here?

i found a simple solution - set rumr to "ignore" and everything's back the way it was

[kevbone]

I could never use the ignore button on anyone. I find it petty.

[ivan]

ignore don't have to be forever - as my daughter will say, "i still love you, just not right now"

[KaskadskyjKozak]

The 500th time you enter the same conversation between the same individuals with the same message that is generally if not directly dismissive of most others involved you are not some freedom fighter carrying the banner of hope.

 

Kind of like you with all your Bush-hating commentary.

[kevbone]

Get a clue KK.....most of the country hates Bush....

[KaskadskyjKozak]

Get a clue KK.....most of the country hates Bush....

 

STFU, nOOb

[kevbone]

Like I said.....get a clue.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

Like I said.....get a clue.

 

Coming from you, that's one of the most ridiculous statements that has ever been posted on this forum. And that says a lot.

 

[mattp]

The 500th time you enter the same conversation between the same individuals with the same message that is generally if not directly dismissive of most others involved you are not some freedom fighter carrying the banner of hope.

 

Kind of like you with all your Bush-hating commentary.

 

It is kind of a lot like that. Just as clearly as I am wasting my breath to tell you what a crook George Bush is, and you find it annoying, I'd say Dwayner is largely wasting his breath and annoying lots of people around here when inserting the same argument into so many discussions all the time.

 

I may be misunderestimating just how disruptive or offensive my political arguments really are, but I think there is a difference in that DwaynerDawg is probably annoying a lot more folks around here than I am and in a manner or with regard topics that are central to the purpose of this board rather than a distraction that the site owners have conciously put on the bottom of the page - even if that is where you like to reside.

[Raindawg]

Sorry, Dawg, but that is not a valid dodge. Where you make a good point, some commend you. Where you are simply being a pest, many condemn you. With few if any exceptions, the only posters on this bulletin board who have ever argued "if you don't like my posts you don't have to read them" have been those who were widely condemned for being obnoxious and most here believed they were deliberately so.

 

Sorry, "mattp", there is no dodging here. Once again, you display your self-delusion in believing that you have the ability to discern other's intent, e.g. whether one post or another was written to be "deliberately" "obnoxious" or not, also, below: "you may find it amusing".

 

You may find it amusing to continually "explain" how climbing has been taken over by the devil or the top performers in the sport are in your mind no more than a joke, but that'd be like having some of cc.com's loudest Athiests campout inside your synagogue or maybe at your office or lab or your golf countryclub with signs proclaiming that Zionism is wicked and Raindawg is the biggest offender. You might ignore them the first day or two but it would grow old if they persisted.

 

Leave religion out of it; your analogy is offensive. We're talking climbing here. I recognize that some of my viewpoints are not mainstream (as of yet, although I'm confident they eventually will be) but I will take advantage of the opportunity to share them when I can. These ideas are "part of the debate" and they will be presented as I see fit. If you or anyone else sees my name, and finds my posts obnoxious, walk on by. Ain't that what freedom's all about? By the way, I care a great deal about climbing; 2008 marks my 35th year of involvement...much of my life. A lot of what I see going on I believe to be utter CRAP! and I will comment on it whether such views are popular or not.

 

The 500th time you enter the same conversation between the same individuals with the same message that is generally if not directly dismissive of most others involved you are not some freedom fighter carrying the banner of hope.

 

"Mattp", we've been through this so many times both on-line and in-person. You may not like my style, but it's the one I choose. If someone else chooses to present a similar message in a more gentle way, fine with me. I'm not here to conform to you or anyone else, whether you think my approach is appealing or not. Frankly, I find many of your posts obnoxious, including this last one.

RE: "freedom fighter carrying the banner of hope"??? See my comments above....you REALLY don't know.

 

[sexual_chocolate]

Leave religion out of it; your analogy is offensive. We're talking climbing here. I recognize that some of my viewpoints are not mainstream (as of yet, although I'm confident they eventually will be)

 

it's funny you mention religion, since you (and I'm being sincere here) really remind me of a shrill version of Osama Bin Laden.

 

At least he has the humility to always say "God Willing".

[Bug]

I agree with Mattp on Bush and I agree with Raindawg on bolting.

The rest of you are wankers in your own special way.

Spray on and love it.

[tvashtarkatena]

35 years and all we got was this lousy soapbox.

[mattp]

Spare me the indignation about my reference to your religion, Dwaynedawg. I bet you've brought that into the discussion over a hundred times with your feaux rabbi bit.

 

Of late, I tend to less frequently engage with you than I used to. Carry on, but don't try to use the "if you don't like my arguments, don't read them" dodge. You probably are not going to get much sympathy from most posters around here if you draw some fire from a clearly misguided sport climbing apologist like Bill Coe, or if you have a post shipped from a climbing thread to spray.

[Bug]

Did someone say "RELIGION?"

That reminds me....................................

[Bug]

I used to work for the Blackfeet traditionalists. We managed to prevent Reagan and friends from drilling in sacred Blackfeet wilderness. During my dealings with the Blackfeet elders they made it very clear to me that they are prohibited from insulting anyone and anyone representing them should follow that pattern. When they talked about loosing the land to drilling, they were clearly upset but what they kept coming back to was their belief that the people doing the drilling were going to suffer more than anyone. They would be dealt with by the spirits the way we deal with mosquitoes. Sickness to them and their families was sure to follow. Reagan's alzhimers for example.

Beleive what you will.

How you act toward others, every single thing you do and say, is how you define yourself in society.

[tvashtarkatena]

It's amazing to me that Raindawg has apparently never read the story of the Zaxes.

[RuMR]

hahaha...

 

just read that to my 6 year old yesterday...

[tvashtarkatena]

The only difference is that Raindawg supplies both the North going and South going characters in a single persona.

[RuMR]

must be one helluva rippin' headache in there...

[tvashtarkatena]

Being angry at the world for what it is must be hard on a guy.

[hafilax]

The Europa/Crap Crags thread go me thinking about bolting debates and I saw the 'climbing gym' attached to the Kacademon boulder was mentioned.

 

The development of climbing in Squamish was somewhat unique in that the number of climbers at the popular crags is tiny compared to the states and in order to find a crack here you have to destroy a small ecosystem of moss and trees. A ground up ascent is nearly impossible around here with the exception of the slab routes which can only be protected with bolts. It's like JosephH and Raindawg's dystopia. I guess climbing never should have been developed here.

 

Over on Supertopo Bachar was the first to question Beth's ascent being classified as 'traditional'. The old guard stand insist that traditional means that you start ground up and pull the rope on each attempt. It's a fine line between rehearsing ground up and rehearsing on TR IMO. You might as well say onsight or bust.

The noobs think that 'traditional' means placing cams and nuts. In my mind traditional climbing means getting to the top no matter the cost like in the age of the bolt ladder. The truth of the matter is that they are all defining their own ideal and labeling it with the same term.

 

I think that there is room for everyone on the rock but that it is a limited resource that should be managed by its users. This is becoming increasingly difficult with the burgeoning number of climbers. It's getting hard for the community to police itself. I can see the necessity of bolting bans in certain areas but in others it seems like creating a museum piece. (Did anyone read the Museum Climb thread on ST? Really interesting!) Can one set of ethics really cover such a diverse activity as climbing?

[pope]

Bachar would have been correct to say (and maybe he did...I didn't read it) that pulling the rope after each fall made the free ascent much more difficult. Those were the rules adopted by those to whom ethics and style mattered greatly. Obviously when you abandon those rules the limits will be redefined, and harder grades will be climbed. Does that mean standards are increasing? Hard to compare when the rules are relaxed. Certainly with hang-dogging and top-rope inspection, you take the mystery out of every square inch of the climb, and most of the danger goes with it. Harder grades, diluted experience. Ain't that what sport climbing is all about? Those elements were important in traditional climbing. Maybe Bachar is correct.