Arc'teryx Jackets now Made in China?

[KaskadskyjKozak]

I don't expect quality to drop, but I know for a fact, ProShell fabric costs or not, the $599 jacket made in Canada last year is not costing Arcteryx the same money this year to make that same $599 Jacket in China. We are talking major company savings on labour costs(Annual Salaries, Health and Benefits, Retirement funds, Pensions, Local Operating Taxes and Costs, Etc...) that no longer exist when you hire someone in China for pennies an hour!

And even with shipping costs that $599 Jacket costs about $50 to $100 to make in China today whereas it used to cost about $400.00 to make back in Canada. I have no doubt the quality is the same since the machines are all the same, but the people operating the machines are working longer hours for far far far less pay. Whether that affects quality can be argued but whether that lowers the moral standard of the Western Capalist world in which we are all born into and all an active part of is not an argument but a fact!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Amen!

 

[sixoclocknews]

And even with shipping costs that $599 Jacket costs about $50 to $100 to make in China today whereas it used to cost about $400.00 to make back in Canada.

 

 

 

While the move to China is to increase production and profit margin at the same time, there's no way that a jacket in Canada used to cost $400 to make. The dealer mark up has been 50% for some time, even now with the ones made in Canada it's 50%. And that doesn't account for the Arc'teryx profit margin (which is anyone's guess). I'd be surprised if that $600 Canadian made jacket costs more than $200 to make.

[Jake_Gano]

It works like this:

 

You make 20,000 jackets a year and you have hired pretty much every available sewer in the area.

 

You want to sell 40,000 jackets next year. You can't double your production locally because you already employ everyone you can in the area.

 

 

Chicken or Egg-type situation. Why are there not more sewers, or any skilled laborers? Cause the jobs suck, people pursue other things. Why do the jobs suck? Because every time people working the job collectively (unions, etc.) demand better pay/benifits/conditions, industry says they can't afford to do that. Their competition is making there gear in China, if the cost of production goes up, they'll have to fold or go overseas.

 

[zeroforhire]

once again... recalling my conversation with some of the head honchos of the dead bird clan:

 

They made a point that with the weakening US dollar, they were losing tons and tons of money since their biggest customers were not worth as much as they used to be in comparison with the Canadian dollar.

 

In order for arcteryx to continue to thrive as a company, and grow; they needed to make the move to china. They know their jackets are expensive, and cannot afford to raise their prices much more. The way it was explained to me, is that arcteryx has their own factory that was set up by their own people. I guess there are a lot of other companies that share factories with each other. (The North Face for instance)

 

Interesting comments, I have enjoyed the read... thanks everyone.

[Hugh Conway]

They made a point that with the weakening US dollar, they were losing tons and tons of money since their biggest customers were not worth as much as they used to be in comparison with the Canadian dollar.

 

how does bullshit taste?

 

This move long predated the loonie bush peso fall.

[Dechristo]

I have no doubt the quality is the same since the machines are all the same, but the people operating the machines are working longer hours for far far far less pay. Whether that affects quality can be argued but whether that lowers the moral standard of the Western Capalist world in which we are all born into and all an active part of is not an argument but a fact!

 

No, not entirely.

 

You don't allow that much, if not most, of the Chinese generationally are significantly poorer than those in the "Western Capalist[sic] world". The manufacturing boom in China has provided, for the first time, to hundreds of thousands, the opportunity to climb economically out of their generational poverty. Many work for several years in an industrial complex where they are fed and provided housing (it is not required that they live in-house). Having earned and saved in those few years the equivalent of what their parents have earned in their lifetimes, they leave, some go to school and/or start their own businesses.

 

They would beg you to not stop their exploitation and the lowering of your "moral standards".

[tokyobob]

My wife bought a pair of North Face mountaineering pants (gore-tex)for me during a visit to China. They looked awesome (tags and everything), and I planned to take them on a trip to Baker. A few days before I left-just out of paranoid curiosity-I stuck my arm through the leg and held it under a slow flowing tap. Holy shit, water poured through--seams and all. She bought the clothing from a "Northface outlet" in China, which I'm positive is an unauthorized dealer of crap. The polar-tec jackets seemed ok, but who really knows what gets into the product line.

[sixoclocknews]

They would beg you to not stop their exploitation and the lowering of your "moral standards".

 

 

One could make a case for these jobs raising the standard of living/increasing opportunity for these people, but the true question is why are these people worth less? They (as anyone) don't *want* to be exploited, but except it because they don't feel like they could do better at the time. I'm sure they'd be willing to take a raise, but the company would move production before that happened. If their skill set is the same, then they should be paid the same. Human condition is what unregulated capitalism fails to protect. Believing that you're helping 'Raise the standard of living' or any other corporate bull, is a way for you (and the corporations) to rationalize exploitation. If they cared about the condition of the people, they'd pay them equal wages no matter what the discrepancy in the currency rate. But they don't, they care about making money.

 

But look on the bright side because of all the Arc'teryx growth, and expansion (& exploitation) you can get a Covert Scarf. Talk about innovation...

[gearup5000]

I think you meant, you can get a covert scarf...that's NOT made in Canada.

 

If they weren't paid less, then the production would still be in

Canada.

However, all these "fair" points of view are usually narrow, and singularly focused i.e. suspension of reality.

I mean, throwing in the Chinese ownership of US debt making it a complex situation vs a simple one would undermine the simple "moral" high ground.

 

Anyway, I hope the innovation continues and that the quality is not sacrificed.

 

 

 

[Hugh Conway]

I hope the innovation continues and that the quality is not sacrificed.

 

What have they innovated in the 10 years since they started making jackets?

 

answer: jackshit

[snoboy]

I hear they have some pretty sweet harnesses coming for the next season.

[Dechristo]

They would beg you to not stop their exploitation and the lowering of your "moral standards".

 

 

One could make a case for these jobs raising the standard of living/increasing opportunity for these people, but the true question is why are these people worth less?

 

An Economics 101 course would be helpful to you.

 

It's troubling when the reality of the vast improvement of hundreds of thousands of individual people's lives conflicts with one's socio/political paradigm, yes?

[Delmarco]

They would beg you to not stop their exploitation and the lowering of your "moral standards".

 

 

One could make a case for these jobs raising the standard of living/increasing opportunity for these people, but the true question is why are these people worth less?

 

An Economics 101 course would be helpful to you.

 

It's troubling when the reality of the vast improvement of hundreds of thousands of individual people's lives conflicts with one's socio/political paradigm, yes?

 

Ever read the Time Machine by HG Wells...

 

Everytime I go into a well lit, well air conditioned department store with the nice mind-numbing lite-FM Jazz music playing overhead for the hundreds of shoppers and I see an item on the rack, whether it be food goods or clothing, if the tags say made in China or Asia its usually way cheaper than items made in USA or Europe my mind goes back to the Time Machine.

 

In the story we go underground, in the dark, damp caves where the Moorlocks slaved and made everything perfect for the well lit world above where the Sun People consumed everything bought to them. The Sun People stayed in total oblivion to what was going on in the workshops down below. For the Sun people, their world was perfect and in harmony with itself.

 

However, it was not and there was always a balance to be paid and the Moorlocks made damn sure it was paid!

 

In the story we eventually find out at the climax that the totally dependant Sun People would literally die without the Moorlocks aide. The Time Traveller soon realized it was the Moorlocks who where the true masters of the planet and the idiotic consumers, the Sun People, where in fact slaves being farmed by the Moorlocks for meat (Spoilers: The Moorlocks were cannibals and ate the Sun People whom they clothed and fattened with gifts and fresh farmed foods).

 

Anyway..the production abilities of Mexico, China/Asia and even parts of Eastern Europe versus our American/Western Culture consumption abilities tells a similar tale that may have the same or a parallel climactic result as the Time Machine story.

 

When these fast growing productive 3rd World Countries develop economically, militarilly and financially to a 1st World status will they still want to be the bitches of the western world or will they invade our country and take over our consumption dependent economies.

 

Which brings me to a quote a wise man once said;

"An economy based on consumption will always be weaker and eventually fall prey to the economy based on production"

 

 

 

[John Frieh]

Read The World is Flat by Friedman.

[billcoe]

I hear they have some pretty sweet harnesses coming for the next season.

 

Sweet! Didn't Todd Skinner have one of those prototypes?

 

BTW, the price to get that stuff made in China would shock all of you. There is no financial reason to stay in N America, even Mexico costs are higher. China quality will be equal or better to what you can get here if the company is careful.

 

BTW, you can buy "North Face" branded stuff all over in China, Nepal, Asia - everywhere over there. However, if you look closely, only a small portion of it is actual North Face brand. Most are done in someones basement factory or quonset hut with a dirt floor and get a North Face logo tag slapped on it for a finale before they kick it out the door. North Face does a respectable job of keeping counterfeits out of the US, but you can find that crap all over Asia. Complaining about the poor quality of a counterfeit seems like complaining when that $1.00 DVD of the brand new movie, which is still in the theaters in the US and still unavailable on DVD, has the black silhouette of some guys head pop up and move right across the screen on the way to the popped rice concession- during the movie. I saw that on "Simpsons the movie" my son got from one of his buddies traveling back from Malaysia (buddy did pay a buck for it) and it was the first indication that I was watching a pirated movie.

 

Anyone see the down coat I was wearing at Jimmys the other night? Sewn in my own house. Frostline kit over 25 years old and still going strong. The girlfriend, now wife, watched me struggle to make the hood for @ 2 weeks and offered put me out of my misery and to do the coat. She sewed it in a day or so. It was a good business model for the time. The idea was that you did the work yourself and saved on the (US) labor, which, as we had ideological issues which rolled over into trade issues (embargo) no Chinese labor or goods were available and India didn't have the infrastructure as well.

 

History of Frostline

 

Regards all:

 

Bill

[Hugh Conway]

Read The World is Flat by Friedman.

 

The world will be flat when that blowhard is out of a job.

[Dechristo]

They would beg you to not stop their exploitation and the lowering of your "moral standards".

 

 

One could make a case for these jobs raising the standard of living/increasing opportunity for these people, but the true question is why are these people worth less?

 

An Economics 101 course would be helpful to you.

 

It's troubling when the reality of the vast improvement of hundreds of thousands of individual people's lives conflicts with one's socio/political paradigm, yes?

 

Ever read the Time Machine by HG Wells...

 

Everytime I go into a well lit, well air conditioned department store with the nice mind-numbing lite-FM Jazz music playing overhead for the hundreds of shoppers and I see an item on the rack, whether it be food goods or clothing, if the tags say made in China or Asia its usually way cheaper than items made in USA or Europe my mind goes back to the Time Machine.

 

In the story we go underground, in the dark, damp caves where the Moorlocks slaved and made everything perfect for the well lit world above where the Sun People consumed everything bought to them. The Sun People stayed in total oblivion to what was going on in the workshops down below. For the Sun people, their world was perfect and in harmony with itself.

 

However, it was not and there was always a balance to be paid and the Moorlocks made damn sure it was paid!

 

In the story we eventually find out at the climax that the totally dependant Sun People would literally die without the Moorlocks aide. The Time Traveller soon realized it was the Moorlocks who where the true masters of the planet and the idiotic consumers, the Sun People, where in fact slaves being farmed by the Moorlocks for meat (Spoilers: The Moorlocks were cannibals and ate the Sun People whom they clothed and fattened with gifts and fresh farmed foods).

 

Anyway..the production abilities of Mexico, China/Asia and even parts of Eastern Europe versus our American/Western Culture consumption abilities tells a similar tale that may have the same or a parallel climactic result as the Time Machine story.

 

When these fast growing productive 3rd World Countries develop economically, militarilly and financially to a 1st World status will they still want to be the bitches of the western world or will they invade our country and take over our consumption dependent economies.

 

Which brings me to a quote a wise man once said;

"An economy based on consumption will always be weaker and eventually fall prey to the economy based on production"

 

 

 

I'm glad for you that your imagination entertains unfettered by reality.

[G-spotter]

I hope the innovation continues and that the quality is not sacrificed.

 

What have they innovated in the 10 years since they started making jackets?

 

answer: jackshit

 

Oh? compare an Acrux to a Nozone...

 

not to mention the already-mentioned and tres chic Covert Scarf

[Hugh Conway]

Oh? compare an Acrux to a Nozone...

 

I've never actually seen an Acrux outside of its natural habitat - the outdoor gear catalog.

[G-spotter]

They had a couple in the factory store last time I was there, but I bought extra Covert Scarfs instad so I can have multiple colors in my quiver.

[sirwoofalot]

Unfortunately made in China has become synonymous to poor quality when made in China should not be that way. It should only mean made in China.

 

The question we consumers need to ask is the Importer or the Brand owner trustworthy?

Will they send a QA team to oversee their interests in China?

 

I work for a company that has an office in China that is staffed by locals and managed by North Americans. It sole purpose is to monitor the quality of products we have made in China and other product we purchase to make sure they meet our brand quality standards.

 

It costs a whole lot less to send some people to China than it does to process in North America or to rebuild your quality brand image because a manufacturing plant in China cut too many corners on your brand.

 

We ship NOTHING that was produced with our out QA person in the plant; this is a non-negotiable point of our company.

 

This company policy gives a competitive advantage in the market place. We can deliver made in China goods at the higher prices consumers are willing to pay for the guarantee of better quality.

 

Most of our competitors have never been to China, or only there once or twice.

 

Will North Face, Patagonia, OR, Etc. be willing to have a QC team in China to oversee their QA? If not then their brands will disintegrate into K-Mart Blue Light Specials.

 

[gearup5000]

My Nozone is still going strong.

 

 

[sixoclocknews]

They would beg you to not stop their exploitation and the lowering of your "moral standards".

 

 

One could make a case for these jobs raising the standard of living/increasing opportunity for these people, but the true question is why are these people worth less?

 

An Economics 101 course would be helpful to you.

 

It's troubling when the reality of the vast improvement of hundreds of thousands of individual people's lives conflicts with one's socio/political paradigm, yes?

 

 

Economics teaches you how to maximize profits, not act in a socially responsible manner.

 

I'm all for the reality of vastly improving people's lives (even when it comes to cutting into profit margins) ie:

.30 an hour x 280 hours a month = $168 per month

5.00 an hour (still under the minimum wage) x 280 = $1,400 per month.

 

Which improvement is more vast?

[sirwoofalot]

 

Economics teaches you how to maximize profits, not act in a socially responsible manner.

 

I'm all for the reality of vastly improving people's lives (even when it comes to cutting into profit margins) ie:

.30 an hour x 280 hours a month = $168 per month

5.00 an hour (still under the minimum wage) x 280 = $1,400 per month.

 

Which improvement is more vast?

 

 

 

WRONG! Any micro economics class recongnizes so called economic profits.

Business classes teach profit maximization.

 

Economics takes a much wider view of the entire ECONOMY.

 

 

[Delmarco]

Okay. I spoke with an American seamtress from a similar outdoors company (whose name I will not say) who informed me that Made In China is not all that bad as it sounds. In fact, the quality can even improve as some companies use the extra money saved from labour to put towards design and fabrics engineering.

 

She did tell me labour conditions in China can be much harsher than American factories, but in regards to low pay; What may seem like peanuts to us can actually feed and house a factory worker and his/her family for a week in China. No they are not going to be buying BMWs and shopping at the trendiest malls, but a factory worker's priorities in China are basically food, shelter and saftey before the luxuries that we call norms here in America.

 

So when we choose not to buy products in China we are mainly choosing not to support exploited labour and not to support corporate greed.

 

It has little to do with quality. People work hard an dwith much skill in any country on the planet. Its just the Chinese are willing to do it for less pay, or enough pay that feeds and shelters them. Whiles Americans need 401 Ks, big homes, two plasma TVs, Two SUVs, Christmas bonuses, health plans, Coffee before work, cigarette breaks, 1 hour lunch, weekends off and comapny perks to do the same damn thing!