Mountain Loop Fiasco

[tvashtarkatena]

I'm curious who he works for. I've known several state reps, and my now-retired state senator lives just a few houses down the street. I can assure you that none of them would dismiss a citizen issue within their district simply because it wasn't tied directly to a "state agency". That;s just plain ridiculous. IMO, what jfree is referring to is called l-a-z-y government. The very least a state rep could do is pick up the phone and ask a few questions.

 

See, we have these political entities called counties, you know, where the county sheriff works, which are smaller than states...oh nevermind.

[Weekend_Climberz]

Ask him if his supervisor's name is Larry

[minx]

Ask him if his supervisor's name is Larry

:lmao:

[sirwoofalot]

Cops do some good things, but there's a reason they're called Pigs

 

Ah yes, another cop-bashing thread by the ignorant. You know, yesterday I went out to eat, and the waiter was rude to me. So now I hate all waiters.

 

This one deputy was making a very bad judgement call. Please direct anger towards him, not towards law enforcement in general.

 

Being in law enforcement, I am going to give you real advice on what to do, not this "I saw it on TV" advice that so many people want to give.

 

What he was doing was technically legal, but very bad judgement and common sense. At the scene his name should have been taken. (It will be on the tow paperwork if you got it.) You should have asked for his supervisor to respond to the scene and that you want to make a complaint at that time.

 

Being that this is a day later, and you may or may not have his name: do this. Call the snohomish county sheriff office that patrols that area. Ask for a sergeant or lieutenant. Now here is the hard part; calmly, truthfully and respectfully explain what happened and why towing the cars was a bad idea.

 

To stop anyone from responding stating "I pay their salary, I should be able to be rude and crass and they still listen to me," I will cut that off now. Being human, if you start lying (easy to spot) or being rude or use comments like "i pay your salary," You will simply make the supervisor you are talking to tune you out, thinking you are blowing things way out of proportion. By talking calmly and respectfully, you sound like a sane average citizen and will be listened to.

 

After talking to a supervisor, write a letter and call the actual Sheriff's office. You won't speak to the Sheriff, but your communication will get to him.

 

After that, call and write to the Snohomish Executive (the equivalent of Ron Sims.)

 

All this will get the message across that towing the cars is not right. Yes, it is a lot of work, but bitching will not change anything, while taking the effort to do these things will.

 

Hope this will help.

 

Dear Cop,

I have had many encounters with police officers in my life. All of them but one was pleasant. Even the unpleasant one I was able to defuse the situation but calmly taking to the officer and remembering that he too is a human being. I would say about 1 out of 10 or more times the officers have been fair, reasonable and even friendly and helpful.

 

Your advice is well noted, and I will remember it.

 

Thank you very much for your continued service in a very difficult but yet needed aspect to your society.

 

 

[Recycled]

If this were me, I would write a letter to the County Executive, cc: the Sheriff and County Council, highlighting the issues involved. One important facet not already mentioned is that access to your trailhead vehicle is very important for potential self-rescue. It's not just parent/kids that would be endangered under the circumstances, but an injured hiker/climber may need access to their vehicle to get help. Towing vehicles could turn a unpleasant situation into a serious epic or fatality.

 

If there's not an immediate response, step up the heat and send a copy to the local and regional newpapers. You may then be asked to either write a letter to the editor, a guest op or a regular article may be run.

 

In my experience, phone calls don't get the same response and waste a lot of time.

 

One other thought: get in touch with your local SAR organization and see what their stance is. They work under Sheriffs' offices and could probably get the point across directly.

 

[cfire]

I have called the Sheriff's office and am waiting for a call back from the supervisor. I'll post after I talk to this person(who happens to be married to my supervisor ). The receptionist looked up the call and said that a passing seargent called in that there were 18 cars blocking the road.

 

I know that they were not blocking the road as our friends took plenty of pictures at the scene, so it should be interesting.

 

Stay tuned...

[MisterMo]

Same story on US2 at Stevens pass, many cars have been towed due to parking on the highway shoulder.

SIDE NOTE:

We got hasseled by the man yesterday for hiking back to the area on the hwy.

Written warnings for everyone, it almost wiped the stupid smile off my face.

If you must tour, hike back to the area on the 10 foot high shoulder of the road.

 

Same issue, different agency. SR2 nuttiness is courtesy WSDOT and WSP. Pretty much every place you can pull off SR2 between Skykomish and Berne Camp is posted either No Parking or 15 Minute Parking only, presumably in the name of "safety".

 

Tunnel Creek is not a crime. Neither, I guess, is Wenatchee Bowl.

 

Time, maybe to work to restore an attitude that highways should be places where people can pull off and do things.

Edited January 3, 2008 by MisterMo

[king5news]

Yep, we still monitor occasionally.

Thanks "Bug" for the tip.

 

CFire -- are you or your son willing to speak to a reporter?

[needtoclimb]

I have called the Sheriff's office and am waiting for a call back from the supervisor. I'll post after I talk to this person(who happens to be married to my supervisor ). The receptionist looked up the call and said that a passing seargent called in that there were 18 cars blocking the road.

 

Hmm, this changes things a little. The deputy was now ordered to take action by a supervisor. As long as it is a legal order (and this will easily fall under that category. Illegal orders are ones that are so obviously and wretchedly wrong that there is no doubt whatsoever. Orders may be dumb, or lack common sense, but that does not make them illegal,) then the deputy had to act. If he was told to tow the cars, he had to do it or risk disciplinary action.

 

So now you have to move up the chain of command, and work on identifying the supervisor, not the deputy. He did nothing wrong. The supervisor needs to be told why this is a bad thing.

 

I mention this because as a society we love to bash people, and want to see revenge even if we have the wrong person. And since shit always rolls down hill, it is the deputy who will get the blame, even though he was following a legal order. (yes, there is a huge double standard here. It sucks.)

 

I like the idea of the SAR organizer talking to the Sheriff. That may work, as it is coming from a person of authority and knowledge, not just some hiker who parked on the road and now is mad about it. Not sure who runs Snohomish County SAR, but that would hopefully help get the point across.

 

Am I correct in the idea that we simply want it made clear to Snohomish Sheriff Office that the cars should not have been towed because that would leave people stranded, possibly incurring life-threatening scenarios? Correct? If you go this route, a directive (written order that effects the whole department) might be written explaining why towing cars on mountain highways is a bad idea.

 

If your plan is simply to go after someone's head, then it will affect just the one person, and not really fix the problem as everyone else will not know why this was a bad judgement. (Not to mention destroy moral among deputies for being punished simply for doing their job.)

[quicker_than_ewe]

Is it possible that we have a NODDER sighting?

[marylou]

Am I correct in the idea that we simply want it made clear to Snohomish Sheriff Office that the cars should not have been towed because that would leave people stranded, possibly incurring life-threatening scenarios? Correct? If you go this route, a directive (written order that effects the whole department) might be written explaining why towing cars on mountain highways is a bad idea.

 

That seems to be the heart of the matter.

[cfire]

I talked to the Supervisor of the deputy of that area and he had no knowledge of this incident. We had a nice conversation where I expressed my concerns and he acknowledged that they were legitimate. Understandably he wanted to get the story from the Deputy on scene before he passed judgement on whether or not it was an appropriate action to take and who made the decision. He is going to get back to me after he talks to the Deputy on scene.

 

Hmm, this changes things a little. The deputy was now ordered to take action by a supervisor. As long as it is a legal order (and this will easily fall under that category. Illegal orders are ones that are so obviously and wretchedly wrong that there is no doubt whatsoever. Orders may be dumb, or lack common sense, but that does not make them illegal,) then the deputy had to act. If he was told to tow the cars, he had to do it or risk disciplinary action.

 

Just to clarify, this was third hand information given by a receptionist to me. I have not heard first hand from the Deputy his reasoning for this action. I agree that it may not have been his call, but if there were safety issues with the "order", then he certainly has the right and duty to find a different solution.

 

I like the idea of the SAR organizer talking to the Sheriff. That may work, as it is coming from a person of authority and knowledge, not just some hiker who parked on the road and now is mad about it. Not sure who runs Snohomish County SAR, but that would hopefully help get the point across.

 

I am a member of Skagit Co. SAR and did let the Sheriff's office know this. If this turn out to be a issue that has happened before, then I will persue getting some dialogue going about the dangers from our point of view.

 

Am I correct in the idea that we simply want it made clear to Snohomish Sheriff Office that the cars should not have been towed because that would leave people stranded, possibly incurring life-threatening scenarios? Correct? If you go this route, a directive (written order that effects the whole department) might be written explaining why towing cars on mountain highways is a bad idea.

 

If your plan is simply to go after someone's head, then it will affect just the one person, and not really fix the problem as everyone else will not know why this was a bad judgement. (Not to mention destroy moral among deputies for being punished simply for doing their job.)

 

You are correct that I want to prevent this from happening again. Admittedly I was pretty hot about the thought of my son and his friends possibly being stranded on a remote road, but I never stated that I wanted revenge or anybody's job. I am a public servant and know that tough decisions have to be made all of the time. A kneejerk reaction to something I don't know the full story on serves no purpose. Hopefully something good comes from the situation and we can park in peace.

[letsroll]

I can understand why they don't want you hiking back on the highway. Snow plow or other cars might hit you.

 

As for what happened they should post sings stating that you are not ment to park at the end of the road. If people still do then they should give out tickets not tow. If this still happens or this is a good place to access the outdoors then maybe they should consider making some sort of snow park and signing where people can park.

[Bug]

I have to wonder why the road is plowed. If they were parked at the end, where else does the road go? If no one can park there, why plow it?

There are probably good answers but I have not seen any details about this.

[dmuja]

 

KING 5 is reporting tonight that some "teen hikers" have been caught in an avalanche "on the mountain loop highway near Verlot". At least 1 girl is still missing right now and search is being organized.

 

Lets hope all comes out well.

 

Lets also hope that the tow happy cops up there werent part of the problem.

[G-spotter]

I have to wonder why the road is plowed. If they were parked at the end, where else does the road go? If no one can park there, why plow it?

 

Do cars at the end of the road prevent snow plow from turning around?

[Bug]

I have to wonder why the road is plowed. If they were parked at the end, where else does the road go? If no one can park there, why plow it?

 

Do cars at the end of the road prevent snow plow from turning around?

That was answered in the original post. They were not blocking the snowplows.

[dmuja]

 

Just to update my last post:

 

The girl has been found deceased.

 

Very, very sad.

 

The location of the trail they took is really close to the one in the original post. I for one am now quite curious if any more vehicles were towed today in the area and if (or not) such an action could have made things worse in this incident. I hope not, but if it did, someone should pay big time for it.

[Bug]

Very sad indeed.

My condolences to the family.

[G-spotter]

I have to wonder why the road is plowed. If they were parked at the end, where else does the road go? If no one can park there, why plow it?

 

Do cars at the end of the road prevent snow plow from turning around?

That was answered in the original post. They were not blocking the snowplows.

 

It seemed like it left it unanswered as to whether the snowplow might be able to get out by reversing but would rather get out by turning around and didn't have enough room to do that.

[Bug]

Yeah. I guess you are right. It just saysthat they "were not blocking the road".

[ian]

I can understand why they don't want you hiking back on the highway. Snow plow or other cars might hit you.

 

So? It should still be my choice if I want to take that risk. It is not up to the cops to tell me when I'm not being "safe".

[letsroll]

will in that case I won't feel bad but rather feel bad for the poor snowplow driver who plowed you. That might mess them up, heck I know it would mess me up.

[needtoclimb]

I can understand why they don't want you hiking back on the highway. Snow plow or other cars might hit you.

 

So? It should still be my choice if I want to take that risk. It is not up to the cops to tell me when I'm not being "safe".

 

So you just be allowed drive 90 mph down the freeway, play in traffic, or sleep on railroad tracks? When your dangerous actions affect other people (drivers or snow plows having to avoid you) then the government does step forward.

 

Also, when the government can be sued for not stopping you, then they have the ability to enforce rules to stop you. Unfortunaly, we are such a litigous society that that the government has to make more and more rules to keep people from suing them and others.

 

One more thing. Remember, congress, counties and cities make the laws. The cops are tasked with enforcing them. Its not just the fact that the cop has nothing to do and wants to go pick on you. Maybe sevral people called it in, forcing him to take action. Maybe a supversior or higher has made patrolling the corridor a priority. Many things go on beyond "the cops telling me what I can and can't do."

 

Oh, and one last thing for thought. The 13 year old who just died in an avalanche. What if the road was blocked by people illegally parked there, and SAR could not get up there to look for her. Then we would have the whole community screaming "why aren't those roads patrolled! Why weren't those cars towed!" It's real tough to have it both ways.

[spicoli11]

I think SAR can get around a few parked cars