Denali Expedition 2008 - Looking for 10-12 member

[kevbone]

 

man, do you all have jobs? How do you post so much during the day? too much to read now, but I jumped to the end, seems the conversation went lame,...

 

 

Yes…we all have jobs. Most people I have met that are regular posters are programmers or some sort of software junkie of some sort. Or they just have a cubicle job like me….and yes the conversation went lame. That is what spray is all about. Welcome to the real……..

 

[kevbone]

that you would even notice when i post and when i don't

 

What ever....I notice things. And have a good memory.....I notice you post early usually. Just like me.....

 

 

[minx]

yep, i post early too. i'm ubiquitous. deal with it

[kevbone]

Ah....thats more like it.....

[sexual_chocolate]

The fact that you then go out of your way to let folks know the mountain is secondary to why you're there simply makes you that less welcome.

 

it's a little silly and condescending of you to think that you are in a position to say who is and isn't "welcome".

 

your vitriol is enough to have a fellow atheist turn to religion!

[Bug]

and you're telling me the Athiests are a threat?

 

At about 3% of the population, I wouldn't feel too threatened.

 

Pontif, when are going out to worship the powdery white god on the holy long shoes?

 

Richard Dawkins says that there are probably more atheists than there are Jews in the world, but they tend to be so independent and such freethinkers that they don't tend to organize and form lobbying groups like religious groups as the Jews have.

 

Just sayin'.

 

great! maybe all of us atheist should get together, pick a really cool spot, and declare it our homeland.

It's called China.

[snugtop]

OK I haven't read the whole thread but no one's stated the obvious:

 

The idea of "Christian climbing" is just goofy. This dude sees like a well meaning dork.

 

Which leads me to ask...can Christians have a good sense of humor?

[Bug]

 

 

I think Boy Scouts will not admit gays leaders.

 

Correction: The boy scouts will not admit gay boy scouts, either.

 

Full disclosure: the Boy Scouts first got me out of the house and into the mountains. I owe that organization a life long debt of gratitude.

 

Can I interest you in makeing a contribution to Boy Scouting and/or leading classes on climbing?

 

Yes, I would be happy to help in leading some classes on climbing for your troop. Promise I won't preach Atheism. PM me.

Careful tvash. You are on your way to a bible meeting with evangelical fundamentalists.

"On my honor I will do my best to do my duty to GOD and country...."

[Bug]

OK I haven't read the whole thread but no one's stated the obvious:

 

The idea of "Christian climbing" is just goofy. This dude sees like a well meaning dork.

 

Which leads me to ask...can Christians have a good sense of humor?

God created you.

Now that's funy.

[Hugh Conway]

OK I haven't read the whole thread but no one's stated the obvious:

 

The idea of "Christian climbing" is just goofy. This dude sees like a well meaning dork.

 

Which leads me to ask...can Christians have a good sense of humor?

 

3ZQI0Xm29T

[prole]

 

Kin I join y'alls climbin' expedishin?

 

[tvashtarkatena]

 

 

I think Boy Scouts will not admit gays leaders.

 

Correction: The boy scouts will not admit gay boy scouts, either.

 

Full disclosure: the Boy Scouts first got me out of the house and into the mountains. I owe that organization a life long debt of gratitude.

 

Can I interest you in makeing a contribution to Boy Scouting and/or leading classes on climbing?

 

Yes, I would be happy to help in leading some classes on climbing for your troop. Promise I won't preach Atheism. PM me.

Careful tvash. You are on your way to a bible meeting with evangelical fundamentalists.

"On my honor I will do my best to do my duty to GOD and country...."

 

A Scout is

trustworthy, loyal, helpful,

friendly, courteous, kind,

obedient, cheerful, thrifty,

brave, clean, and reverent.

 

OK, so I violate a few of those from time to time, and one all the time. And no, I didn't have to look that up.

 

What could be better than teaching a kid how to climb?

[tvashtarkatena]

Kin I join y'alls climbin' expedishin?

 

 

Hey, man, the left side of the bell curve needs a prezz'dent too.

[Bug]

 

 

I think Boy Scouts will not admit gays leaders.

 

Correction: The boy scouts will not admit gay boy scouts, either.

 

Full disclosure: the Boy Scouts first got me out of the house and into the mountains. I owe that organization a life long debt of gratitude.

 

Can I interest you in makeing a contribution to Boy Scouting and/or leading classes on climbing?

 

Yes, I would be happy to help in leading some classes on climbing for your troop. Promise I won't preach Atheism. PM me.

Careful tvash. You are on your way to a bible meeting with evangelical fundamentalists.

"On my honor I will do my best to do my duty to GOD and country...."

 

A Scout is

trustworthy, loyal, helpful,

friendly, courteous, kind,

obedient, cheerful, thrifty,

brave, clean, and reverent.

 

OK, so I violate a few of those from time to time, and one all the time. And no, I didn't have to look that up.

 

What could be better than teaching a kid how to climb?

As a Christian and a former Boy Scout, I would say that you are too judgemental to lead such a conservatively traditional group.

Oops! Now I sound like you telling this guy he can't practice his religion on Denali.

Anyway, I find this thread and the internet very entertaining. The public free flow of thoughts and feelings is unparallelled in history. Your posts are great. I really enjoy the heathen and atheist constructions of a world I see so differently.

By all means, teach these young Christians how to climb.

Just beware of their hidden agenda.

[minx]

Ah....thats more like it.....

 

perhaps i should PM you every time there is a change in when i post? or maybe everytime that i post, i'll send you a PM. you know, just so you know.

[dan_forester]

man, do you all have jobs? How do you post so much during the day? too much to read now, but I jumped to the end, seems the conversation went lame,...

 

I'm not going, nor do I have the time, to respond to much said, but I wanted to use this example (and there are others all over this board) of these judgmental and angry words used, without even knowing us. Just read above,... we are in your (dmuja) own words, and satisfyingly agreed by Pink "condescending, judgmental attitudes, wolves in sheep garb, arrogance, smiles packaged in nice deception, judgmental (did I say that)". Sounds like someone needs to point the finger in the other direction? Just a thought, but I was thinking maybe you ought to practice what you preach. I'm thinking I'm far from perfect and I may say some off things, but this is quite irrational, specially coming from climbers,...that is if you are serious climbers in the first place, maybe internet nerds, I don't know. I would think a climbing community would be a little more tolerant. I think if you got to know me, and I didn't tell you I was a Christian, I would be the guy in your workplace who works hard, and takes care of his friends, Christian or not, and I think we would dig each other, and I think you would speak differently of me. I think these internet forums are a facade of ranting and raving, placing prejudicial past experiences into present judgments, but each of us are different in person. Just a thought.

 

Don't take it personally, as far as irrational reactions and slander goes, religion is second only to bolting debates on this board. Anyway the real issue for some of us is the joyful noise deal... i.e. your backpack guitar. If I promise not to serenade strangers in camp with my kazoo rendition of "smoke on the water" will you promise not to play "this little light of mine" on the git-box? Can we compromise on this at least?

[JosephH]

it's a little silly and condescending of you to think that you are in a position to say who is and isn't "welcome".

 

I wasn't determining or defining their 'welcomability' - I was merely responding to their own descriptions of the [suspicious] welcome they received from NPS and other climbers in their TR.

[kevbone]

Which leads me to ask...can Christians have a good sense of humor?

 

Yes they can......the bible?

[Seahawks]

 

The "climbers on crusade" (according th VH) or whatever claim to want to just meet other climbers, hang out, help out bla bla.. yet all the while "KNOWING" that they have the only key to "salvation". With that kind of judgmental attitude already embedded in their little minds how would this be a basis for any kind of honest, open or even "casual" meeting?

 

Almost everything VH has said in his groups defense contradicts their own website. And Im not so sure that such a deeply held delusion as his/theirs does not in fact pose a danger in a mountaineering environment - "the forecast says no go, but I have heard the voice of the lord..."

 

Joseph,right on! What we have here, (to borrow a phrase) are wolves in sheep's garb. It really is just what the world doesn't need more of, shortsighted, preachy, condescending arrogance all rapped up in a nice package of smiles and deception.

 

 

well said

 

 

man, do you all have jobs? How do you post so much during the day? too much to read now, but I jumped to the end, seems the conversation went lame,...

 

I'm not going, nor do I have the time, to respond to much said, but I wanted to use this example (and there are others all over this board) of these judgmental and angry words used, without even knowing us. Just read above,... we are in your (dmuja) own words, and satisfyingly agreed by Pink "condescending, judgmental attitudes, wolves in sheep garb, arrogance, smiles packaged in nice deception, judgmental (did I say that)". Sounds like someone needs to point the finger in the other direction? Just a thought, but I was thinking maybe you ought to practice what you preach. I'm thinking I'm far from perfect and I may say some off things, but this is quite irrational, specially coming from climbers,...that is if you are serious climbers in the first place, maybe internet nerds, I don't know. I would think a climbing community would be a little more tolerant. I think if you got to know me, and I didn't tell you I was a Christian, I would be the guy in your workplace who works hard, and takes care of his friends, Christian or not, and I think we would dig each other, and I think you would speak differently of me. I think these internet forums are a facade of ranting and raving, placing prejudicial past experiences into present judgments, but each of us are different in person. Just a thought.

 

Don't judge us all by the few freaks here. I would bet your a pretty cool person and I bet most here are pretty cool people but behind a computer sometimes brings the worst out.

[minx]

 

man, do you all have jobs? How do you post so much during the day? too much to read now, but I jumped to the end, seems the conversation went lame,...

 

I'm not going, nor do I have the time, to respond to much said, but I wanted to use this example (and there are others all over this board) of these judgmental and angry words used, without even knowing us. Just read above,... we are in your (dmuja) own words, and satisfyingly agreed by Pink "condescending, judgmental attitudes, wolves in sheep garb, arrogance, smiles packaged in nice deception, judgmental (did I say that)". Sounds like someone needs to point the finger in the other direction? Just a thought, but I was thinking maybe you ought to practice what you preach. I'm thinking I'm far from perfect and I may say some off things, but this is quite irrational, specially coming from climbers,...that is if you are serious climbers in the first place, maybe internet nerds, I don't know. I would think a climbing community would be a little more tolerant. I think if you got to know me, and I didn't tell you I was a Christian, I would be the guy in your workplace who works hard, and takes care of his friends, Christian or not, and I think we would dig each other, and I think you would speak differently of me. I think these internet forums are a facade of ranting and raving, placing prejudicial past experiences into present judgments, but each of us are different in person. Just a thought.

 

no of us here work so we don't have money for gear so we don't climb

 

yeah, if you didn't tell me you're "christian", i'd think you were a great guy. heck i might even like you in person. however, the topic of your post was your religion and sharing your religion in the mountains.

 

You can’t have it both ways. You can’t announce that you’re climbing a mountain and looking for like minded partners to spread “the word” and not expect to get a response from those who don’t share your beliefs. You have no room for shock or indignation.

 

If you are truly surprised by this response, rather than just annoyed that your post didn’t sail smoothly by the attention of those who don’t share your beliefs, then you are truly oblivious to the world around you. News flash! Not everyone is a Christian, Not everyone feel the need for the security blanket of religion. Some of us even find it offensive and insulting that you think that our chosen lives need some sort of overhaul by adding religion. We are not weak minded fools who have made the decision not to believe in a Christian god lightly. Most of us have given some measure of consideration.

 

I know you will find this hard to believe but some of us actually find organized Christianity offensive. How would you respond if I posted seeking like minded atheist climbers to deprogram Christians on Denali?

 

[ericb]

 

The "climbers on crusade" (according th VH) or whatever claim to want to just meet other climbers, hang out, help out bla bla.. yet all the while "KNOWING" that they have the only key to "salvation". With that kind of judgmental attitude already embedded in their little minds how would this be a basis for any kind of honest, open or even "casual" meeting?

 

Almost everything VH has said in his groups defense contradicts their own website. And Im not so sure that such a deeply held delusion as his/theirs does not in fact pose a danger in a mountaineering environment - "the forecast says no go, but I have heard the voice of the lord..."

 

Joseph,right on! What we have here, (to borrow a phrase) are wolves in sheep's garb. It really is just what the world doesn't need more of, shortsighted, preachy, condescending arrogance all rapped up in a nice package of smiles and deception.

 

 

well said

 

So let me get this straight....Christians are the judgemental and intolerant ones???

[chucK]

just some of 'em

[prole]

Some of us even find it offensive and insulting that you think that our chosen lives need some sort of overhaul by adding religion.

 

Actually, it's your chosen after-life that's at issue.

[JayB]

As far as the boy-scout thing goes, there's a big difference between what the people in charge articulate as policy, and what actually happens in practice at the troop level.

 

I was an atheist boy scout, and no one associated with my troop would have made an issue of this had it even come up. It never did, because religion just wasn't part of the picture. I suspect that this would have been the case even if I chose to press the issue with the adults that ran the troop. Had I made it a point to engage in theatrics, and made it a point to force the issue at the regional level or higher, maybe it would have been different.

 

I think that this is a key issue. The Boy Scouts are a private organization with a particular set of principles that they advocate and attempt to reinforce or instill in the boys that choose to join their organization. They have a set of principles that they make no secret of - you choose to join them or not. The extent to which you actually abide by or internalize them is entirely up to you.

 

When I was growing up, there seemed to be a broad assumption that when you joined such a group, it was up to you to make whatever compromises or concessions necessary to you to persist in the group. Now it seems like there's a broad expectation that the converse is true, and that private groups should make an infinite number of compromises or concessions in their principles in order to accomodate the practices, beliefs, or identities of individual members, who seem to crave this kind of institutional validation.

At least in the case of special groups that have received validation as formal victim-groups.

 

If there were laws in place which specifically prevented the formation of any youth-groups for boys other than the Boy Scouts, or if membership in the Boy Scouts was compulsory, then I'd be more sympathetic to these complaints. As things stand, there's absolutely nothing preventing anyone from creating an outdoor oriented groups for gay children, or athiests, or any other group of youths with convictions or identities that fall outside those that the Scouts are willing to accept or promote.

 

Having said all of that - I have no problem with the argument that if the Scouts are taking public money, then they have they have to play by the public's rules, and should not receive any special treatment, subsidization, etc that would not be available to any other group of private citizens.

[minx]

Some of us even find it offensive and insulting that you think that our chosen lives need some sort of overhaul by adding religion.

 

Actually, it's your chosen after-life that's at issue.

If they haven’t convinced that there’s a god they’re sure not going to convince me that there’s an afterlife.

 

yeah, that's if i converted to judaism would they still harp on me and try and convert me?