kevbone Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 You are a pregant mother who earns the equivalent of $30,000 US a year. Would you rather give birth in the USA That is easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Off_White Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 Interestingly, Ireland came in first ... Any idea why there should be such a huge difference between three first-world countries Oh hold on a minute, you're positing that Ireland is a first world country? Boy, talk about questionable statistics! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 All I gotta say is holy shit. I definitely didn't make financial plans for that little surprise. Let this be a lesson to keep track of the erosion of your health care before you get an unpleasant little surprise like the one I got today. Yow. guess your union isn't doing such a great job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marylou Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 REally? You don't think it's because our insurance group is so small that one major claim can drive premiums up? Oh, okay, I guess I'll try to find a way to blame the union for this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 REally? You don't think it's because our insurance group is so small that one major claim can drive premiums up? Oh, okay, I guess I'll try to find a way to blame the union for this. aren't you paying big $$ for those great union benefits, salaries, vacations, etc? sucker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomtom Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 Interestingly, Ireland came in first, with a maternal mortality rate 1/10 that of the US. Canada's mortality rate was less than half that of the US. Any idea why there should be such a huge difference between three first-world countries all with advanced medical systems, similar diets and lifestyles, similar economies, similar just about everything? The Canadian "Health Care System" kills *FOUR TIMES* the number of pregnant mothers than Ireland. What's up with that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefan Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 Do not be complaining about the cost of health insurance if you are for keeping illegal immigrants here in the US. Many, but not all, illegal immigrants do not pay anything..which falls usually under some state plan...which means you pay for their health care. It is not the major cost of your health care bill, but it is a small part. Oh, and don't complain about state taxes either...your state taxes pay for teachers who are teaching many illegal immigrants' children. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 Do not be complaining about the cost of health insurance if you are for keeping illegal immigrants here in the US. Many, but not all, illegal immigrants do not pay anything..which falls usually under some state plan...which means you pay for their health care. It is not the major cost of your health care bill, but it is a small part. Oh, and don't complain about state taxes either...your state taxes pay for teachers who are teaching many illegal immigrants' children. and gee, might not an influx of millions of poor illegals contribute to the higher mortality rates (child and mother)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marylou Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 aren't you paying big $$ for those great union benefits, salaries, vacations, etc? sucker. No. If I wanted to lay blame, I'd blame the 2 guys who got in bad car accidents afer falling asleep at the wheel on their drives home, the guy who had prostate cancer, and the guy who had a hip replacement. They have driven the costs up for our group, so it must be "their" fault. If I wanted to blame "the union" for it, I suppose I could say that rather than negotiating pay freezes for us so we could put that money toward our health care, that they negotiate a pay CUT in order to increase that %. So no, there's not really a way to blame the union for spiraling health care costs. It's our own damn fault for having to use our insurance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TREETOAD Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 Name three examples of how private health care is good for the american people? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 Name three examples of how private health care is good for the american people? 1) Profit for insurance companies 2) See 1 3) See 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 aren't you paying big $$ for those great union benefits, salaries, vacations, etc? sucker. No. If I wanted to lay blame, I'd blame the 2 guys who got in bad car accidents afer falling asleep at the wheel on their drives home, the guy who had prostate cancer, and the guy who had a hip replacement. They have driven the costs up for our group, so it must be "their" fault. If I wanted to blame "the union" for it, I suppose I could say that rather than negotiating pay freezes for us so we could put that money toward our health care, that they negotiate a pay CUT in order to increase that %. So no, there's not really a way to blame the union for spiraling health care costs. It's our own damn fault for having to use our insurance. All health care costs are spiraling, not just those for unions. From a theoretical standpoint, the larger the pool of people covered under a health care plan, the more the costs of that plan for those who use it can be amortized, the more buying leverage the plan has, and thus, the cheaper the plan is. It's no surprise that health care for unions has increased if, and I'm not sure if this is actually happening or not, unions have gotten smaller and more fragmented. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 (edited) aren't you paying big $$ for those great union benefits, salaries, vacations, etc? sucker. I wouldn't laugh too hard, KKKY. Your cookie cutter software job can and probably will be outsourced to India or elsewhere with a snap of a manager's finger. Marylou's will never be. Edited November 12, 2007 by tvashtarkatena Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefan Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 The main reason health care costs are always going up is becuause people do not "shop around" for cost. Can anyone tell me they knew the cost of going into a surgery or investigated the cost before they did the surgery? And if you knew the cost, and it affected your pocket book, would you look for a different procedure? People just do not do that kind of investigating. Hell, not even the doctors know how much some of the stuff costs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archenemy Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 I would rather see a NO insurance / pay for services system emerge than a government controlled single payer scheme. Have any studies ever been conducted on the potential outcome/consequences of returning to a mostly pay-as-you-go system where relatively inexpensive "health insurance" covers only the utterly catastrophic? Seems to me this would return some price sanity - not to mention competition - to the medical industry. Just a thought. But what happens before that magical "price sanity" point--assuming that medical costs could somehow be lowered in a country where a person can sue medical providers for millions of dollars for just about anything? And what do you consider "utterly catastrophic"? Personally, I would consider losing everything I own to pay for medical bills catastrophic. I think besides Feck and Porter, not a lot of folks have been in this position. Five years ago I was in their position too. There is nothing like having a doctor tell you that you better put your paperwork in order. That will change your life unlike anything else. And just getting the testing done to find out what the fuck is wrong with you can empty your bank account--forget paying for the tx. I think folks don't honestly realize how expensive medical care is and how difficult it is to deal with it on top of all the emotional crap that comes with fighting for your life. It is easy to say that people should pay their own way, but it just can't realistically be done here in the US. And what about people in accidents that aren't able to pay? We just let them die? I'm not even a nice person and I wouldn't let that happen. Imagine how outraged people with a well-developed sense of humanity would be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marylou Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 The main reason health care costs are always going up is becuause people do not "shop around" for cost. Can anyone tell me they knew the cost of going into a surgery or investigated the cost before they did the surgery? And if you knew the cost, and it affected your pocket book, would you look for a different procedure? People just do not do that kind of investigating. Hell, not even the doctors know how much some of the stuff costs. I haven't decided yet if I would have had the surgery or not if I'd known about the cost. Wait until I can see the complete results of the work that was done and then I bet I will know the answer. In my case, there was no alternate procedure. The alternative would have been to continue living in constant pain, as I had for 8 years prior to having the work done. That said, I still don't know how the hell I'm going to pay for this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marylou Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 I wouldn't laugh too hard, KKKY. Your cookie cutter software job can and probably will be outsourced to India or elsewhere with a snap of a manager's finger. Marylou's will never be. That's true, though the stagehands strike on Broadway may be a watershed moment for my trade's working conditions. We'll see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 There are two major philosophies behind the extreme opponents of single payer healthcare. 1) Government is always incompetent. 2) Those who consume a lot of health care are losers who should be made to pay their own way. 1) If, in fact, government is always incompetent (as compared to private industry), then why don't we outsource the most vital services, such as fire, police, military, transportation. Why do we heavily regulate utilities? If, in fact, private industry is SO MUCH MORE competent, how do we explain stock market crashes, Enron, the Big Three, and a long train of other corporate disasters in our history? 2) This argument usually comes from people who've never run up against the gross limitations of our health care system. The very minute they do, they're the first to start whining about it. For example, my father, who retired from 30 years of naval service, had several strokes and needed home nursing care. He was well covered health insurance-wise. No plan, federal or private, paid for this $1200/day cost. This is a guy who meticulously played by all the rules, who lived a life of service, and, in the end, his society was not there for him when he needed it most. In my view, this is clearly a system which is broken. A single payer system amortizes the cost for those with more expensive health care problems across the largest possible population. It also affords the highest bargaining leverage for health care goods and services. Finally, it is an essential (in my view) service; more so than police and fire, because we all need it at some point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 It's also pretty hard to defend having hundreds of insurance companies with their various forms and procedures duplicating efforts, administration, overhead, and advertising. Certainly with a single payer system that would be consolidated. Lack of competition you say? Pftttt. The current program has worked well eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 It's also pretty hard to defend having hundreds of insurance companies with their various forms and procedures duplicating efforts, administration, overhead, and advertising. yeah, government bureaucracies don't have any forms, procedures, duplicated effort or overhead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefan Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 The main reason health care costs are always going up is becuause people do not "shop around" for cost. Can anyone tell me they knew the cost of going into a surgery or investigated the cost before they did the surgery? And if you knew the cost, and it affected your pocket book, would you look for a different procedure? People just do not do that kind of investigating. Hell, not even the doctors know how much some of the stuff costs. I haven't decided yet if I would have had the surgery or not if I'd known about the cost. Wait until I can see the complete results of the work that was done and then I bet I will know the answer. In my case, there was no alternate procedure. The alternative would have been to continue living in constant pain, as I had for 8 years prior to having the work done. That said, I still don't know how the hell I'm going to pay for this. Shop around for the cost. Ask, "How much will this cost, and what do I get out of this?" In addition, don't just shop around in the US. See if going overseas to Singapore will benefit you too. I have heard of places like Singapore and Hong Kong that have US trained doctors. After you are done with the surgery, you get a 5 day vacation at the spa where you have the surgery. Find out how much it costs, talk to your insurance company and see if they would be willing to pay for your airfare too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 The main reason health care costs are always going up is becuause people do not "shop around" for cost. Can anyone tell me they knew the cost of going into a surgery or investigated the cost before they did the surgery? And if you knew the cost, and it affected your pocket book, would you look for a different procedure? People just do not do that kind of investigating. Hell, not even the doctors know how much some of the stuff costs. I haven't decided yet if I would have had the surgery or not if I'd known about the cost. Wait until I can see the complete results of the work that was done and then I bet I will know the answer. In my case, there was no alternate procedure. The alternative would have been to continue living in constant pain, as I had for 8 years prior to having the work done. That said, I still don't know how the hell I'm going to pay for this. Shop around for the cost. Ask, "How much will this cost, and what do I get out of this?" In addition, don't just shop around in the US. See if going overseas to Singapore will benefit you too. I have heard of places like Singapore and Hong Kong that have US trained doctors. After you are done with the surgery, you get a 5 day vacation at the spa where you have the surgery. Find out how much it costs, talk to your insurance company and see if they would be willing to pay for your airfare too. Yes, this would be a very practical system for most Americans, especially since most plans require the selection of a primary care facility. "Get your procedures done in Singapore." Now why didn't the rest of us think of that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 I've been pretty impressed by the efficiency of a lot of government services. Licensing. Permitting (at least in my projects, which have been relatively straightforward), even the IRS (although I have't done this experiment, try not paying your taxes one year and see how efficient they can be). Most definitely emergency services, which are amazing. Limited government funding, political pressure, and mandated performance provides effective incentives for efficient operation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olyclimber Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 And when your looks are gone and youre alone How many nights you sit beside the phone What were the things you wanted for yourself Teenage ambition you remember well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 There is a danger, however, that the government might be less inclined than the private sector to prescribe pain medication. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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