Sorry Steve, Russians sent it

[ashw_justin]

I thought this was about Himalayan bigwall fixedlining.

You need to add some snow and discarded ropes to the picture.

[G-spotter]

vodka is NOT aid

[LUCKY]

 

 

Reply to picture

Obviously the hardman Iceman has passed away, only the old frail and weak internet cowboy spraydawg is left, he spends more time climbing on the internet now than he ever did at the crag. He finds himself going to climbing areas …not to climb but to take pictures to manipulate with photo shop

Sad Sad Sooooo Sad

Have a nice day spraydawg

 

[Raindawg]

Reply to picture

Obviously the hardman Iceman has passed away, only the old frail and weak internet cowboy spraydawg is left, he spends more time climbing on the internet now than he ever did at the crag. He finds himself going to climbing areas …not to climb but to take pictures to manipulate with photo shop

Sad Sad Sooooo Sad

Have a nice day spraydawg

 

 

Oooh! I'm so hurt! All that anger and insult because someone doesn't appreciate your favorite bolt-raped piece of choss! (By the way, when did you become an expert on my life?....what?...you aren't?...you don't have a clue!... I suggest you tone it down a bit...and while you're at it, if you're going to cite my real name as you did above somewhere, I suggest that you come out from behind your cubicle and use YOUR real name). If you fully understood the bolting polemic, then perhaps you'd understand the nature of my comments.

 

I'm glad you have fun out at Exit 38...have at it...the place is ruined and in my opinion, it's a disaster.....I'd have more respect for it (and a lot of other smaller crags) if people would settle for top-roping these cute little routes rather than using it as a stepping stone from the gym to rampant bolting elsewhere. You can disagree if you like....others certainly do.

 

P.S. So...what's your real name, "Lucky"? Come forth or sit down!

And by the way, "expert", that's not even my photo...nope...and those aren't "hamburgers", they're "B_LT's". If you knew your cc.com history, you'd know that a couple of years ago, some of the bolt-drillin' folks here were paranoid that THE MAN might be monitoring cc.com and discover (SHOCKING!!!) that not everyone approved of bolting so in order to continue the discussion, some such folks resorted to using the term "B_LT" to thwart THE MAN and his insidious attempts to "google" the word "bolt" and learn the truth. I'm still laughing!

[glassgowkiss]

Reply to picture

Obviously the hardman Iceman has passed away, only the old frail and weak internet cowboy spraydawg is left, he spends more time climbing on the internet now than he ever did at the crag. He finds himself going to climbing areas …not to climb but to take pictures to manipulate with photo shop

Sad Sad Sooooo Sad

Have a nice day spraydawg

 

 

Oooh! I'm so hurt! All that anger and insult because someone doesn't appreciate your favorite bolt-raped piece of choss! (By the way, when did you become an expert on my life?....what?...you aren't?...you don't have a clue!... I suggest you tone it down a bit...and while you're at it, if you're going to cite my real name as you did above somewhere, I suggest that you come out from behind your cubicle and use YOUR real name). If you fully understood the bolting polemic, then perhaps you'd understand the nature of my comments.

 

I'm glad you have fun out at Exit 38...have at it...the place is ruined and in my opinion, it's a disaster.....I'd have more respect for it (and a lot of other smaller crags) if people would settle for top-roping these cute little routes rather than using it as a stepping stone from the gym to rampant bolting elsewhere. You can disagree if you like....others certainly do.

 

P.S. So...what's your real name, "Lucky"? Come forth or sit down!

And by the way, "expert", that's not even my photo...nope...and those aren't "hamburgers", they're "B_LT's". If you knew your cc.com history, you'd know that a couple of years ago, some of the bolt-drillin' folks here were paranoid that THE MAN might be monitoring cc.com and discover (SHOCKING!!!) that not everyone approved of bolting so in order to continue the discussion, some such folks resorted to using the term "B_LT" to thwart THE MAN and his insidious attempts to "google" the word "bolt" and learn the truth. I'm still laughing!

 

"you one stupid fuck" can sum up your spew. what do bolts at some crag have to do with west face of k2? can you for once stay on topic? or are you just incapable of any logical thinking?

[Choada_Boy]

 

"you one stupid fuck" can sum up your spew. what do bolts at some crag have to do with west face of k2? can you for once stay on topic? or are you just incapable of any logical thinking?

 

Funny!!

[LUCKY]

 

Got your panties in a bunch do you spraydawg, the name is Lucky Gibson and if climbed at all you would have run into me, just ask around...I can be found climbing every weekend. From cracks at Tieton to sport at North Bend just follow the weather

Dang neer everyone on CC.com has meet me

If there is CC.com history in your dumb shit pictures, sorry I am not an internet cowboy and I missed it.

BTW my cubicle is High Steel ...like in skyscrapers!

 

My comments hit a little too close to home...sorry dude! lighten up.

The Iceman has left the building

LUCKY

[Jens]

It'll be interesting to hear more about the Russians ascent of the grandaddy of all peaks.

---------------------------------

 

Even though I'm a sporto myself, sadly I must admit that Dwayner is right on the money with his exit 38 comments. Or at least for all the bolted choss that lies on the south side of I-90, 99% of which has more clips than moves and some of the worst rock of any established crag in America. People that jump between vantange and exit 38 for their cragging are really fooling themselves.

[Adam13]

ExplorersWeb(mounteverst or k2climb.net) covered it alright, and Russianclimb.com had the updates and dispatches but there wasn't too much technical info on either site.

[JosephH]

Technical Info: Ten weeks of up and down sieging fixing lines.

 

Admittedly a brutal task, but climbing? Sure, in that pre-Habeler/Messner, brute force, any-way-to-the-top, expedition sort of way. Maybe that's the only way some routes will go, but I suspect not everyone agrees with such heavy-handed tactics in light of recent alpine accomplishments.

[Adam13]

I agree with you, I posted my thoughts earlier on the thread and thats what started this whole back and forth.

[Adam13]

Mounteverest.net just posted news of another Russian new route on Shingu Charpa in Pakistan, 1600m of altitude gain. Although the story did say they had to aid climb part of it due to bad rock conditions.

 

21 days on the mountain to summit, sounds like a real blast.

[billcoe]

Well, I find it interesting that Wayne, who's been on that Mt, hasn't offered his opinion yet.

 

Wayne? Yer thoughts?

[wayne]

Well, Though the style is less than ideal, the Russians again proved they are tough and indomitable. Capable of getting up the hardest projects this planet has to offer. Truly inspireing. Just like exit 38 .

[Julian]

The feature that Steve House called his dream on the west face, the Sickle, isn't actually what the Russian team climbed. If you look at any pictures detailing their route, to the left of the rock pillar there is a curving couloir/icefield; that's what House wants to climb (and Kobold/Morawski/Hamor were gunning for that very objective but had to switch plans due to bad weather).

 

I always wonder, when reading criticism of Russian climbs such as this one, why the Russians seem to get singled out for using seige tactics to complete what are essentially big-wall aid climbs? Does "alpine style is the only acceptable way to climb" only apply to walls in the Himalaya, and not Yosemite, Baffin Island, and Patagonia? Has any "wall" of any sustained length and difficulty been climbed in "alpine style"? When a hard A4/A5 route is established in Yosemite Valley, they typically take several days, climbing capsule style with portaledges and fixed rope. The Russians do the same thing, on walls that are several times larger, in a much harsher environment.

[JosephH]

Well, if ten weeks of leap-frogging teams repeatedly sieging up and down a wall is your thing have at it. It is the essence brute force and, again, may be the only way some lines are climbed. But to me personally seems relatively pointless due to the overwhelming dependency on expeditionary and logistical inelegance. And from what I can tell of the number of people/teams and the yoyo-ing distances involved in the acscent, I can only surmise we have a different definition of "capsule style". Still - all-in-all - it's burly business no matter how you look at it.

[Julian]

I'm not saying that the Russian ascent on K2 is a "capsule-style" ascent, not at all. But those types of ascents, when made on El Cap, Mt. Thor, Paine Centrale, etc. frequently employ at least some rope fixing, bolting, etc., and are rarely criticized to the same extent as the Russians. They also seem to catch a lot more flack than American climbers who have made ascents of hard big walls in a similar style (Bridwell, Beyer, Child, Ogden, Synnott, etc.). I agree with you to the extent that it's certainly not the way I would want to climb something, but I don't think it's a worthless endeavor as some of the climbing community and press present it.

[ryland_moore]

Any discussion of the ethics?

 

No supplemental oxygen is difficult to argue with despite the fixed ropes.

 

Alex, I think most people climb K2 without supp.tO2. Everest is really the only mountain where supp. oxygen is used more often than not,but then again, you don't have hordes of guided clients on K2 that you do on Everest.

 

Still, it is a monumental feat to climb that route. Maybe the Russians are getting so much flack becasue not only were siege tactics used with thousands of feet of fixed rope and gear but also the number of people they thlrew at the route? I can almost guarantee it was not only two climbers always in the lead fixing all of the gear. I bet maybe5 or 6 guys were trading off daily to push the route higher, the leaders then come down to rest, jumar back up and move gear in a total team effort. Maybe if you throw enough hardmen at a route, anything is possible. Much different than big wall aid in Baffin, Yos, or patagonia with teams of 2-4. I'd be interested to know how many climbers were actually on the route helping out....Anyone know?

[G-spotter]

When Carlos Buhler teamed up with the Russians to climb the Lightning Route on Changabang it was just the opposite, Ryland. One or two guys do ALL the leading and the rest of the team is there to support them - hauling, cleaning cooking etc.

 

People criticize expedition syle for seiging but i would have to say "so the fuck what". It's a lot more work to be on a wall for three weeks instead of three days. If they are having fun and not dying then more power to 'em.

[ericb]

I'm not the expert here, but I think the criticism of the Jannu climb was not necessarily that they aided it, or used seige tactics, but that they left thousands of feet of rope in place...basically didn't clean up after themselves...is that correct?

[G-spotter]

We are talking about K2 here and not Jannu. How much fixed rope did they leave on Everest NF? I heard no complaints about that.

[Adam13]

No one cares if people leave ropes on Everest. There's a good reason for that, actually a couple. Number 1 fixed ropes being left is the least of the garbage problem on Everest, and Number 2 Why would anyone complain about ropes being left on Everest when people go up it every year, so its there anyway? You cant just leave a bunch of shit hanging on a mountain when no one is gonna use it or when its a route that no one else is gonna climb it and even if they did they dont want to be using left over gear.

[G-spotter]

 

I bet Twight and Blanchard etc. were really sorry to find the ropes and gear the Japanese left, while they were having sex with death 8D skull

[billcoe]

 

Even though I'm a sporto myself, sadly I must admit that Dwayner is right on the money with his exit 38 comments. Or at least for all the bolted choss that lies on the south side of I-90, 99% of which has more clips than moves and some of the worst rock of any established crag in America. People that jump between vantange and exit 38 for their cragging are really fooling themselves.

 

No, the final word was already presented, quoted by me. It was someone who posted on this thread other than me and put here:

 

Link to the final word on bolting thread

 

So there is really NO NEED to continually rehash this old point. Been THERE, DONE that.

 

and Lucky: never met ya, but I'd tie in with you. As far as the Russians, I defer to folks who've been there.

 

Unfortunately not all K2 climbers will: the great climbers John Smolich and Alan Pennigton will not be speaking on the subject. Nor will I do so in their place.

 

Bless you all, may you all live long and prosper.

[LUCKY]

 

 

and Lucky: never met ya, but I'd tie in with you.

 

Ditto dude you seem like you would be fun to climb with!!!

 

 

I am just a loser and off topic LUCKY

 

Edited September 15, 2007 by LUCKY