vapor barrier socks

[carolyn]

just curious if anyone has ever used these and how they worked for you...

[jaee]

Great for Denali. Perhaps could be useful on long trips in the winter to keep your feet warm & boots dry.

[Big_Wave_Dave]

Yuk! Don't use them, they do NOT work and only add to foot maintenance issues, sock drying, etc. If you've ever tried a vapor barrier in your sleeping bag just translate this to your feet. A much better solution is to bring along baby powder and actually take care of your feet. Dry them, powder them, and change your socks. Takes all of 5 minutes and is a real treat at the end of the day.

 

If you are determined to use them don't pay $20 at REI, buy Turkey roasting bags at safeway for $2.00. Then after you decide they don't work you won't feel as bad throwing them away.

[Big_Wave_Dave]

If you are really concerned about keeping your liners dry, just suck it up and sleep with them in your bag, they come out toasty in the morning. An ounce of maintenance is worth a pound of technology.

[Attitude]

quote:

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Originally posted by Big Wave Dave:

If you are really concerned about keeping your liners dry...

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My understanding was that vapor barrier socks were used between the liner sock and the insulating sock to keep the insulating sock dry from foot moisture. In this application, the liner socks get soaked and need to be changed every day.

 

People who don't have this problem may use them over the insulating sock to deal with leaky boots.

 

The roasting bag (or bread sack) is a cheap way to try it out without buying the VBLs.

[chris_w]

I have always had a problem with my feet getting wet and cold in the winter time. On a trip last year I tried a pair of VBL Socks and they worked great for me. It did make the boot a little tighter but not enough to cut off the circulation.

 

The liners in my plastic boots used to get soaked from sweat in the winter time. It would take 2 days to dry out in my apartment. I couldn't sleep with them on because my feet would get cold and then I couldn't sleep. The only way to keep them dry was to use VBL Socks.

 

Everyone's feet\body are different so experiment to find out what works for you. I stopped used plastic in the winter and use Leather with VBL Socks.

[freeclimb9]

I've used bread bags inside my sneakers when I was a child, and they worked at keeping my feet warm. Experiment with the el-cheapo bread-bag VBL socks yourself to see if they are right for you.

I think that, in general, vapor barriers don't come into their own until sub-zero temperatures. In sub-zero temps, the VB helps prevent accumulation of frozen body moisture in your clothes and sleeping bag.

[mneagle]

The folks at Stephenson have a religion based around vapor barriers. For the scoop, check out their website: www.warmlite.com

[pindude]

Carolyn, just wondering what your application and what your reasons for inquiry would be...I expect you would be using them for climbing, hiking, or skiing, and to keep your feet warm in freezing temps? Or do you have an issue with sweating and getting your boots wet? They do work well for people, including women, who generally get cold toes and feet in the winter (no pun intended).

 

What I can relate from my own and others' experience:

1. As others have said, use only in freezing temps (of course).

2. There is much personal variability, so you will have to experiment, as mentioned.

3. In addition to bread or plastic grocery bags, Reynolds' Turkey bags work too. I've got a pair of commercially manufactured VBL socks made by Black Diamond. All do the same thing: block moisture.

4. Use a sock combo of (a) lightweight wicking sock next to your skin, (b) the VBL, then © wool or other type of insulating sock outside the VBL.

5. With all the sock layers, beware you don't increase the volume in the boot such that you will cut off circulation and be more cold vs. if you didn't use the VBL's.

6. If it's more of a moisture problem, you can try to use anti-perspirant on your feet in lieu of VBL's, or in combo with. In fact, some friends who do use VBL's automatically use anti-perspirant to keep the moisture down as much as possible.

 

Good luck, pindude

[mattp]

In my experiene, plain old plastic bags are more effective than the commercial vapor barrier socks. The coating on the commercial ones can wear out pretty quickly and, while a bread bag may not last forever, I always have a steady supply of empty food bags over the course of any extended trip and the plastic is so thin that I never have issues with wrinkles. Don't fall for some equipment supplier's marketing hype.

[carolyn]

Sounds like some mixed reviews here, with an overwhelming response leaning toward your typical plastic/bread bag.

 

I was curious because on my ob trip I suffered with my boot liners constantly being wet from sweat...and F'ING FREEZING toes. In fact Im STILL awaiting feeling in a couple toe tips.

 

I used liner socks, I slept with my boot liners in my bag, I dried my socks in my armpits and other warm areas of my body , baby powder on the feet - in the socks - boots, etc. The boot liners rarely dried enough...mmmmm...nothing more enticing than waking up to put your warm feet into a wet liner.

 

Anyway, when I returned home, someone at the store I work at was suprised we werent supplied with or asked to bring vapor barrier socks...giving me a brief explanation as to what they do. As I assisted a woman the other day who was purchasing stuff for HER ob trip, I started to reccomend them, but stopped myself...realizing I had never used them. I pretty much explained their function to her and suggessted she contact OB and do some research to see if it might be a helpful item. I wouldnt wish the frozen toe experience I had on even my worst enemy!

 

Personally, after doing a bit more reading and the thoughts you all shared, if I was on another weeklong+ trip in snow again I might consider bringing the little bags they use when you get customized superfeet. They dont really take up any space or weight, so it would be worth a shot I guess.

 

The only other time my feet are prone to unbearable cold is when Im ice climbing. Usually a toe warmer or two does the trick just fine! (although terminal gravity might not agree *hides in the corner*...sorry tg)

 

Thanks for the info everyone!

 

[ 08-23-2002, 11:13 PM: Message edited by: carolyn ]

[carolyn]

grrrrrr...dbl post

 

[ 08-23-2002, 11:11 PM: Message edited by: carolyn ]

[allthumbs]

...but they make my feet stink.

[David_Parker]

I always grab a few extra veggie bags at the grocery store when I go on a trip. My feet sweat a lot and no non-plastic boot is waterproof in wet glacier snow or walking in streams. I always bring 2 pair of socks (and two thin liner socks with some boots)and rotate them, drying them by putting them in my sleeping bag with me (not wearing them). But after 2-3 days the insides of my boots are usually wet so as soon as you put them on dry socks get wet! This is when I'll put the plastic bags over my socks so the socks (thus feet) don't get wet. I have noticed the tiniest hole allows water penetration but it sloows it way down. I also concur that in sub-zero, multi day trips you need to do the vb between the liner and insulating sock to keep your liners dry. They are the hardest to dry out once wet. It definitely helps to pull the footbeds out to accelerate drying of liners. You definitely have to figure out the system that works for you by trial and error.

[jules]

Haven't had the need to try it with my boots, my Lowa Civettas are awesome, but I always wore plain old sandwich baggies (yes, I have small feet)right against my bare feet when lacrosse season practice started (sox over the baggies). We usually started in December, and played in everything but lightning, and my feet were kept nice & toasty running through freezing water/mud puddles. I read somewhere that to be effective VBL s/b right against the skin, and baggies definitely don't breathe, so my feet did get sweaty. Just took off the bags, dried my feet, and turned the bags inside out for the 2nd half.

(Make sure you're not tying your boots too tight and strapping your crampons too tight as that will help cut off circulation and freeze them toesies, too. Been there, done that.)

[fleblebleb]

Magic trick #1... remove the insoles before going to sleep, stash them on top and close to your body.

 

Magic trick #2... Ditto for socks and make sure you have two pairs so you always have a semi-dry pair at the end of the day for sleeping. The pair you're not wearing as you sleep gets stashed like the insoles.

 

Magic trick #3... once boots, socks, insoles, feet are all wet, you're kinda screwed... The boots or plastic boot liners won't dry out in the field. If you have to hike around with wet boots, dry your insoles and socks and then put plastic bags on over the socks. The boots will continue to be soaking wet, your socks will also be soaking wet as soon as you start to sweat, but the water on the inside of the barrier will be warm and the water on the outside will be cold. Someone that remembers their thermodynamics better than I do can pipe in and explain what ways of heat loss are eliminated as the liner prevents the water on the inside from mixing with the water on the outside... whatever it is it's the fasted way of heat conduction. That's why the vapor barrier liners work, not because they keep you dry - they don't. Anyway, this scenario is what you wind up with when it's pouring, when hiking through marshes, or when spending muchos time on snow in warm weather.

 

I don't really have any experience with extended trips in very low temperatures. I have done short trips though and as long as it was cold enough I have had no need for VBLs. (a) The snow is really frozen, so it's not melting and getting into your boots; (b) it's really cold, so you're not sweating as much. Better make sure you're paying attention to that though, if the weather is really cold and you're going to be out there for awhile you simply don't have the option of getting super sweaty - you have to regulate your pace with the entire duration of the trip in mind.

 

But, I guess the idea behind using VBLs in very cold weather is like somebody said - keeping the boots dry. It works at the expense of your feet, your feet will always be soaked if you wear VBLs. This is a completely different situation than the "oops it's raining everything is soaked scenario..." Don't forget that baby powder

 

[ 08-25-2002, 11:51 AM: Message edited by: fleblebleb ]

[fleblebleb]

Oh, hey, forgot... what's the warranty on Gore-Tex VBLs? Like parkas (lifetime) or like boots (limited)? If it's lifetime than you can buy a pair and if you wear out the membrane you'll get a new pair.

[Goat_Boy]

I'll chime in with a nod toward plastic bags. I've worn out 2 pairs of Black Diamond VBL's--and last month soaked my Inverno innerds with sweat through a 3rd pair. The theory is well proven, you will stay warmer, and keeping the boots dry at altitude is essential. But foot maintenance becomes very important because your feet are swimming in a warm, bacteria incubator for hours on end. I got a serious case of trench foot on Denali a few years ago. Pass the Lamasil.

[Alpine_Tom]

FWIW, I got a pair of neoprene (I think) sox a while back, mail order from Early Winters or somewhere. They were pretty effective at keeping my feet warm, but of course not dry at all. I didn't have plastic boots in those days, I was trying to get by slogging around in the snow in HiTek lightweight hiking boots.

Seems like if your feet are getting cold it's a matter of 1)the boot fitting too tightly so there's not enough circulation, 2) they're getting soaked, in which case a vapor barrier wouldn't do much good at all, or 3) it's f***ing cold (like ice climbing in that -20 weather you get back there,) so cold that sweat isn't an issue, in which case a vapor barrier might work.

But I'm such a cheapskate, I'd try the breadbags first too.

[Attitude]

quote:

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Originally posted by fleblebleb:

Oh, hey, forgot... what's the warranty on Gore-Tex VBLs?

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This is a joke.

 

Right?

[iain]

The same warranty as there is on fishnet parachutes.

[Dru]

If you get spendy Intuition custom closed-cell liners for your plastic boots, the closed cell foam cannot absorb water so your liner always stays dry. then you dont need VBLs OR Bread sacks....

 

I never used them myself but some friends used them and said they were the shit..ok they got em as a sponsorship deal... anybody out there use the Intuition and can comment first hand?