Carabiners is really light is right

[IceIceBaby]

Saving weight is great but when it comes to Carabiners there is much to sacrifice

1) gate opening

2) rope loading radius

3) manipulation of the binner with gloved hand

4) binner capability

Now, since this is next to rope, slings, Ice axe and crampon importance (top of the climbing gear pyramid)

These issues always puzzle me I like the weight of my neutrino but the size is too small and glove manipulation is hideously hard

Dose anyone here have the same experience with the neutrino or alike

[wdietsch]

willstrickland was bitchin about the Omega JC one day ice climbing, same kind of issues

[Dru]

The DMM wiregate keylock is really nice and acceptably light. I also like the Camp wire bentgates, huge gate opening and light.

[erik]

i have almost all neutrinos and think they rock....yes i did find that they are kinda small with gloved hands..but for times when i am climbing with gloves on...i have lots of hotwires...plus i use really lite and thin gloves too...

they certainly have their issues, but i think the benefits outweigh the negatives......

plus who cares about ice and stuff....we want the rock!!!!! with a little bit of ice...we want the rock!!!!

[IceIceBaby]

quote:

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Originally posted by Dru:

The DMM wiregate keylock is really nice and acceptably light.

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I happen to climb with these for a weekend and the two unique and very annoying issues beside the one that mention already were: Because of the DMM ball the wire is on profile and always twisting the binner sideways when u try to clip it really annoying on overhangs and mix The huge nose profile (resembling a pear shape) is a pain to clip to pass through the eye of the ice screw, bolts and wired nuts and always collecting snow causing it for icing up

[ 03-15-2002: Message edited by: IceIceBaby ]

[Dru]

quote:

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Originally posted by IceIceBaby:

I happen to climb with these for a weekend and the two unique and very annoying issues beside the one that mention already were: Because of the DMM ball the wire is on profile and always twisting the binner sideways when u try to clip it really annoying on overhangs and mix The huge nose profile (resembling a pear shape) is a pain to clip to pass through the eye of the ice screw, bolts and wired nuts and always collecting snow causing it for icing up

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I never had those problems but dont climbmuch overhanging ice/mixed. I found them it easy enough to clip, even with my gloves on into screws etc.Actually I have these on top end of my Screamers and Livewires on the bottom end.

Am definitely thinking of going to Neutrinos for summer alpineespecially now since they dropped the price. i would hate to do a biner brake rappel with them though

[IceIceBaby]

quote:

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Originally posted by Dru:

I would hate to do a biner brake rappel with them though

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I use munter or Carabiners wrap in direstraits u need only one binner and it doesn't matter what it is

[wdietsch]

quote:

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Originally posted by verticalturtle:

Omega 4.0 Wire gate mucho roomminimal pesos

$.02

vt

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Thumbs up as well from me on the Omega 4.0 wires.

FWIW, last week I picked up 2 anodized Faders wiregates that are oh so similar in geometry to the Omega 4.0's it's not funny, however the gate is a little different. Got them for $4.00 a pop at ClimbMax in Portland along with a 4' rabbit runner, $13.00 and out the door for the lot....

[max]

I've switch my entire rack over to quik-links. The only gripe I have is trying to use the wrench on overhanging mixed routes. I'm thinking about switching to the hammer-shut variety. Hardware Sales has blems on sale right now.

Blowout discount cheapass sale

[ 03-15-2002: Message edited by: max ]

[imorris]

quote:

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Originally posted by Dru:

yeah cause its more like 80% right

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The thread creeper says:

If anyone caught the PBS Frontline show on "America's Drug War" it was a real eye-opener to how ridiculous the war on drugs has become since the Reagan admin..." I had a good idea about it, but the case studies really brought it home.

[Rodchester]

I have a bunch of Neutrinos and I really like them for most any application that does not require gloves. I have one of the small OPs that I haven't used. So no opinion there.

The weight saved with these biners is worth the trouble, except in winter conditions.

[climb]

quote:

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Originally posted by CascadeClimber:

I've twice had Neutrinos come unclipped from the rope: Once extended with a single, once with a double. Neither of us saw it happen, but we agreed that it had essentially unclipped itself.

I've since switched over to using the Omega JC.

Anyone else have this happen?

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I've had this happen. Two pieces of gear in a row. I couldn't figure out how it happened. Interesting to hear that others have seen this.

[greenfork]

Neutrinos unclipping: Perhaps you didn't completely clip them? Seems a possibility considering how small they are...

[rr666]

I am curious what all you aid climbers out there use as your 'biner of choice. So far I have always taken the approach that I already have enough 'biners, why should I buy more. However, aid climbing requires many biners, and there is a lot of weight to be saved... If I buy more, I might grab a few wires, but can they handle aid climbing, or do the wires get bent to s$*@#...

[Dru]

quote:

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Originally posted by rr666:

I am curious what all you aid climbers out there use as your 'biner of choice. So far I have always taken the approach that I already have enough 'biners, why should I buy more. However, aid climbing requires many biners, and there is a lot of weight to be saved... If I buy more, I might grab a few wires, but can they handle aid climbing, or do the wires get bent to s$*@#...

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Wiregates are good for aid climbing. I think Kong even makes a wiregate oval but dont quote me on that cause i read it in a biner gear review in some Euro mag, it could have been some other company. Then again you are aid climbing, who cares how much it weighs (unless you are reducing the load on your equalized #0 circleheads and you can just send the excess down thje zipline then anyways)? Hauling is hauling! Aid climbing is usually neither fast nor light so take the heavy stuff and kick back.

[erik]

durability issue is nil with the wiregate.....they can and will and do stand up to the abuse of walls, expeditions, cragging and alpine climbing.....

wallstein's enitre aid rack is made up of neutrinos and spirits....mostly neutrinos and hoeboys gets it done......my enitre rack will be neutrinos by the end of summer.......

and as far as the unclipping goes.....i think i would look other places then thinking it is the biner that is at fault on this one....more then likely there are several contributing factors.....

after hundreds and hundres of routes and pitches i have yet to see or hear of that happening...operator error maybe??? hard to say.....

if you guys who don't like the neutrinos i'll take them and since they are junk i'll give you market value for junk.....nada!!

[specialed]

The best biners for aid are and always will be regular old ovals because they won't shift around and do funky shit when your standing on a crappy placement. Also a lot less likely something will come unclipped with ovals. When you're aiding weight isn't a huge factor anyway, so I like to use lots of ovals.

[IceIceBaby]

quote:

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Originally posted by erik:

if you guys who don't like the neutrinos i'll take them and since they are junk i'll give you market value for junk.....nada!!

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And the famous phrase goes“Some ones junk some ones else treasure” I think I will charge you for a treasure

[CascadeClimber]

quote:

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Originally posted by greenfork:

Neutrinos unclipping: Perhaps you didn't completely clip them? Seems a possibility considering how small they are...

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Not. In one case I saw my partner clip the rope and saw the rope in the biner. The second time was the same, 'cept I was climbing and he was belaying. I think they have an issue with the spring constant of the gate.

[mattp]

I think SpecialEd is right about the ovals for aid climbing.

For free climbing, I prefer the Petzl Spirit because it is reasonably light and the key gate doesn't catch on things (this is especially noticeable when racking pins or multiples of stoppers). However, they are expensive, the active end you clip to things is too wide for some funky old hangers with very small holes on them, and the keyhole sometimes ices up in wet snow situations.

I have found unclipping to be more of a problem with the Hotwires than any other biner I have ever used, though where I have noticed it is where I have had racked gear come undone more than when I have had the lead rope come unclipped. I haven't used the nutrinos enough to know if they behave similarly).

[imorris]

I predict all carabiners will be made by BD within 5 years. BD: the Microsoft of climbing companies.

[Matt_Anderson]

I go for super skinny ropes (9.4) for my climbing and abuse them a lot, so the radius issues turns me off of neutrinos for rope end. Also, my fingers are way fat (like most people's when they have gloves on), so clipping them would be horrendous.

That said, I've got about 10 that I use on the bolt/gear end of my draws/slings. The rest of my biners are hotwires, which are still light enough, have a broad radius to be nice to the rope, and are way easy to clip.

One of the more recent mags had a review of the wiregate superlight biners. As I recall, some of them have make the section of the biner that the rope will rest on wider, as if it is a wide radius biner. That would take care of at least one of my bitches.

[lizard_brain]

Been switchin' to Kong Heliums. Love the keygate. Almost as light as Neutrinos (but more expensive - you get what you pay for).

[Wopper]

I have a bunch of neutrinos, used to have one more but I dropped it down the Reid Glacier Headwall a couple of week-ends ago, and agree witht the statements above about using them with gloves. With out gloves they are great, with gloves my fat fingers have a tough time with them.

[willstrickland]

quote:

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Originally posted by wdietsch:

willstrickland was bitchin about the Omega JC one day ice climbing, same kind of issues

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Yeah, gloved hand manipulation being the gripe. The rope-edge radius is actually really large, and these things are featherlight and run $4.79 for blems. They are awesome for rock routes, but too small and gate opening too small for ice. gearexpress has the blems, I've got around 15 of them on my rack.