catbirdseat Posted April 29, 2007 Share Posted April 29, 2007 Man, oh man, you are dating yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrygunJim Posted April 29, 2007 Share Posted April 29, 2007 Â Another way to avoid rapping off the end of the rope might be to very carefully watch the end of the rope while you're rappelling. Â . Â If you can't seem to keep your eyes the direction you're going, why not mark the rope @ 15m (assuming 60m cord) so when you're looking up and see it pass you know you're close? Or tie a knot in the end, knots are good... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinker Posted April 30, 2007 Share Posted April 30, 2007 Â Another way to avoid rapping off the end of the rope might be to very carefully watch the end of the rope while you're rappelling. Â . Â If you can't seem to keep your eyes the direction you're going, why not mark the rope @ 15m (assuming 60m cord) so when you're looking up and see it pass you know you're close? Or tie a knot in the end, knots are good... Â That all assumes that your eyes are open and your hand is still on the rope. Not always the case in an accident scenario. Rock! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamin Posted April 30, 2007 Share Posted April 30, 2007 You guys are mentioning single rope rappels. How do get the rope back once you have rappelled down it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary_Yngve Posted April 30, 2007 Share Posted April 30, 2007 In this case: The first person places gear on rappel. The second downclimbs, relying on the first's intermediate pro to catch the equivalent of a lead fall. Â An alternative could have one climber lower the other, but there may have been unable to communicate on when to stop to place pro / build anchors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Trippett Posted April 30, 2007 Share Posted April 30, 2007 a few possible solutions for stuck rope fears:  1. make more, short raps, as opposed long raps in questionable sections 2. carry the coiled rope with you during descent for questionable raps/windy 3. downclimb if possible 4. lower one climber off the anchor, the second raps off of the other end they just lowered 5. screw it, tie a knot 6. prussik   more ??????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonmf76 Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 I have been teaching students to tie a knot in the end of their rap rope and they all just laugh (other instructors included), even though rapping off the end of the rope seems like it might be the most common cause of death in climbing. Maybe living just isn't that cool...it must be cooler to fall off the end of your rope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazy_t Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 "clueless twit" Â maybe, or heartless twit? Â sorry to sound harsh. but your timing and "joke" aren't so great in the context of the recent event. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 I have been teaching students to tie a knot in the end of their rap rope and they all just laugh (other instructors included), even though rapping off the end of the rope seems like it might be the most common cause of death in climbing. Maybe living just isn't that cool...it must be cooler to fall off the end of your rope. Â For the sake of accuracy, the most common cause of death and injury climbing is falling on rock or ice, not rapping off the end of your rope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 It may well be the most common cause of RAPPELLING accidents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashw_justin Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 In this case: The first person places gear on rappel. The second downclimbs, relying on the first's intermediate pro to catch the equivalent of a lead fall. Â An alternative could have one climber lower the other, but there may have been unable to communicate on when to stop to place pro / build anchors. Â So if it is possible for the 'second' to 'downclimb on lead,' then what prevents the 'first' from 'downclimbing on toprope' while placing gear? It would be much slower than rapping, but much safer as both would be tied in to the rope--and it would save your rope the abuse of lowering. (Granted, there could be a gray area between lowering and downclimbing.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 You guys are mentioning single rope rappels. How do get the rope back once you have rappelled down it? Â YOu can use a biner block with a pull line. Put a rap ring or small sling loop in the anchor and run the rap rope through it. Clove hitch the rap rope to a large locking biner that cannot pass through or jam in the anchor (the 'block'), then tie it to a smaller pull cord (4 mm or larger). Rap only on the rap rope, paying out the pull cord from a stuff sack on your harness as you descend (you can't throw a pull cord...too light and tangly). When off, retrieve the rope with the pull cord. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-spotter Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 In this case: The first person places gear on rappel. The second downclimbs, relying on the first's intermediate pro to catch the equivalent of a lead fall. Â An alternative could have one climber lower the other, but there may have been unable to communicate on when to stop to place pro / build anchors. Â So if it is possible for the 'second' to 'downclimb on lead,' then what prevents the 'first' from 'downclimbing on toprope' while placing gear? It would be much slower than rapping, but much safer as both would be tied in to the rope--and it would save your rope the abuse of lowering. Â "Speed is safety" - generalissimo Mark Twight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marko Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 You guys are mentioning single rope rappels. How do get the rope back once you have rappelled down it? Â YOu can use a biner block with a pull line. Put a rap ring or small sling loop in the anchor and run the rap rope through it. Clove hitch the rap rope to a large locking biner that cannot pass through or jam in the anchor (the 'block'), then tie it to a smaller pull cord (4 mm or larger). Rap only on the rap rope, paying out the pull cord from a stuff sack on your harness as you descend (you can't throw a pull cord...too light and tangly). When off, retrieve the rope with the pull cord. Â There's also the "rappel off the fifi with the bungie attached to the top of the fifi retrieval" trick. Dangerous as hell I'd say, but light. Â Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 There's also the "rappel off the fifi with the bungie attached to the top of the fifi retrieval" trick. Dangerous as hell I'd say, but light. Â Isn't that what they call Bungie Jumping? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 There's also the "rappel off the fifi with the bungie attached to the top of the fifi retrieval" trick. Dangerous as hell I'd say, but light. Â Isn't that what they call Bungie Jumping? Â No, they call it the Wayne Wallace specialty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashw_justin Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 "Speed is safety" - generalissimo Mark Twight  I don't think Twight would be saying that at 9.8 m/s/s. Correction: safe speed is safety. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 Anyone care to explain how that works? My guess is that the rope is tied to the fifi hook using a figure eight loop. The hook is made fast on the sling from which you are rapping. The bungee cord is hooked on the fifi so that it pulls it up towards the anchor, unless weighted. The bungee must have enough elasticity to lift the entire weight of the rope. Â When you go off rappel, the fifi unhooks and the slings fall away. Then you pull hard enough to break the bungee. Did I get it right? Â Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan_forester Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 how'd we get from "how to make rappelling safer" to "how to make rappelling insanely dangerous"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Choada_Boy Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 how'd we get from "how to make rappelling safer" to "how to make rappelling insanely dangerous"? Â Don't forget the "rapping off a single cam with a prussik on the rope attached to the trigger so you can get your cam back" trick. This can also be done with a plunged ice axe or picket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
counterfeitfake Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 Did I get it right? Â I can't be sure... try it and get back to us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 how'd we get from "how to make rappelling safer" to "how to make rappelling insanely dangerous"? Well, the safe ideas have pretty much run their course. Now for each safe way, there must be a dozen unsafe ways- enough to keep this thread going for a long time. Well, of course someone could start a new Insane Rappel Methods thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan_forester Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 hardman rappelling kit: Â 1 skyhook 35 feet of 1/2" webbing 3 spools of dental floss (1 mint, 2 cinnamon) 2 sticks of big red chewing gum harness made of seatbelts 1 carabiner found at the base of el cap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Off_White Posted May 2, 2007 Share Posted May 2, 2007 "Speed is safety" - generalissimo Mark Twight  I believe ol' Yvon Chouinard said this in Climbing Ice, along with "if you carry bivy gear, you will bivy" and "there is no rockfall in Sierra gullies in September." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamin Posted May 2, 2007 Share Posted May 2, 2007 So what is the big deal with rapping down a rope the normal way without a knot in the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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