Tying a knot in the rappel rope

[catbirdseat]

Man, oh man, you are dating yourself.

[OrygunJim]

 

Another way to avoid rapping off the end of the rope might be to very carefully watch the end of the rope while you're rappelling.

 

.

 

If you can't seem to keep your eyes the direction you're going, why not mark the rope @ 15m (assuming 60m cord) so when you're looking up and see it pass you know you're close? Or tie a knot in the end, knots are good...

[Thinker]

 

Another way to avoid rapping off the end of the rope might be to very carefully watch the end of the rope while you're rappelling.

 

.

 

If you can't seem to keep your eyes the direction you're going, why not mark the rope @ 15m (assuming 60m cord) so when you're looking up and see it pass you know you're close? Or tie a knot in the end, knots are good...

 

That all assumes that your eyes are open and your hand is still on the rope. Not always the case in an accident scenario. Rock!

[Jamin]

You guys are mentioning single rope rappels. How do get the rope back once you have rappelled down it?

[Gary_Yngve]

In this case:

The first person places gear on rappel. The second downclimbs, relying on the first's intermediate pro to catch the equivalent of a lead fall.

 

An alternative could have one climber lower the other, but there may have been unable to communicate on when to stop to place pro / build anchors.

[David Trippett]

a few possible solutions for stuck rope fears:

 

1. make more, short raps, as opposed long raps in questionable sections

2. carry the coiled rope with you during descent for questionable raps/windy

3. downclimb if possible

4. lower one climber off the anchor, the second raps off of the other end they just lowered

5. screw it, tie a knot

6. prussik

 

 

more ???????

[jonmf76]

I have been teaching students to tie a knot in the end of their rap rope and they all just laugh (other instructors included), even though rapping off the end of the rope seems like it might be the most common cause of death in climbing. Maybe living just isn't that cool...it must be cooler to fall off the end of your rope.

[crazy_t]

"clueless twit"

 

maybe, or heartless twit?

 

sorry to sound harsh. but your timing and "joke" aren't so great in the context of the recent event.

[tvashtarkatena]

I have been teaching students to tie a knot in the end of their rap rope and they all just laugh (other instructors included), even though rapping off the end of the rope seems like it might be the most common cause of death in climbing. Maybe living just isn't that cool...it must be cooler to fall off the end of your rope.

 

For the sake of accuracy, the most common cause of death and injury climbing is falling on rock or ice, not rapping off the end of your rope.

[catbirdseat]

It may well be the most common cause of RAPPELLING accidents.

[ashw_justin]

In this case:

The first person places gear on rappel. The second downclimbs, relying on the first's intermediate pro to catch the equivalent of a lead fall.

 

An alternative could have one climber lower the other, but there may have been unable to communicate on when to stop to place pro / build anchors.

 

So if it is possible for the 'second' to 'downclimb on lead,' then what prevents the 'first' from 'downclimbing on toprope' while placing gear? It would be much slower than rapping, but much safer as both would be tied in to the rope--and it would save your rope the abuse of lowering. (Granted, there could be a gray area between lowering and downclimbing.)

[tvashtarkatena]

You guys are mentioning single rope rappels. How do get the rope back once you have rappelled down it?

 

YOu can use a biner block with a pull line. Put a rap ring or small sling loop in the anchor and run the rap rope through it. Clove hitch the rap rope to a large locking biner that cannot pass through or jam in the anchor (the 'block'), then tie it to a smaller pull cord (4 mm or larger). Rap only on the rap rope, paying out the pull cord from a stuff sack on your harness as you descend (you can't throw a pull cord...too light and tangly). When off, retrieve the rope with the pull cord.

[G-spotter]

In this case:

The first person places gear on rappel. The second downclimbs, relying on the first's intermediate pro to catch the equivalent of a lead fall.

 

An alternative could have one climber lower the other, but there may have been unable to communicate on when to stop to place pro / build anchors.

 

So if it is possible for the 'second' to 'downclimb on lead,' then what prevents the 'first' from 'downclimbing on toprope' while placing gear? It would be much slower than rapping, but much safer as both would be tied in to the rope--and it would save your rope the abuse of lowering.

 

"Speed is safety" - generalissimo Mark Twight

[Marko]

You guys are mentioning single rope rappels. How do get the rope back once you have rappelled down it?

 

YOu can use a biner block with a pull line. Put a rap ring or small sling loop in the anchor and run the rap rope through it. Clove hitch the rap rope to a large locking biner that cannot pass through or jam in the anchor (the 'block'), then tie it to a smaller pull cord (4 mm or larger). Rap only on the rap rope, paying out the pull cord from a stuff sack on your harness as you descend (you can't throw a pull cord...too light and tangly). When off, retrieve the rope with the pull cord.

 

There's also the "rappel off the fifi with the bungie attached to the top of the fifi retrieval" trick. Dangerous as hell I'd say, but light.

 

 

[catbirdseat]

There's also the "rappel off the fifi with the bungie attached to the top of the fifi retrieval" trick. Dangerous as hell I'd say, but light.

 

Isn't that what they call Bungie Jumping?

[Blake]

There's also the "rappel off the fifi with the bungie attached to the top of the fifi retrieval" trick. Dangerous as hell I'd say, but light.

 

Isn't that what they call Bungie Jumping?

 

No, they call it the Wayne Wallace specialty.

[ashw_justin]

"Speed is safety" - generalissimo Mark Twight

 

I don't think Twight would be saying that at 9.8 m/s/s. Correction: safe speed is safety.

[catbirdseat]

Anyone care to explain how that works? My guess is that the rope is tied to the fifi hook using a figure eight loop. The hook is made fast on the sling from which you are rapping. The bungee cord is hooked on the fifi so that it pulls it up towards the anchor, unless weighted. The bungee must have enough elasticity to lift the entire weight of the rope.

 

When you go off rappel, the fifi unhooks and the slings fall away. Then you pull hard enough to break the bungee. Did I get it right?

 

 

[dan_forester]

how'd we get from "how to make rappelling safer" to "how to make rappelling insanely dangerous"?

[Choada_Boy]

how'd we get from "how to make rappelling safer" to "how to make rappelling insanely dangerous"?

 

Don't forget the "rapping off a single cam with a prussik on the rope attached to the trigger so you can get your cam back" trick. This can also be done with a plunged ice axe or picket.

[counterfeitfake]

Did I get it right?

 

I can't be sure... try it and get back to us.

[catbirdseat]

how'd we get from "how to make rappelling safer" to "how to make rappelling insanely dangerous"?

Well, the safe ideas have pretty much run their course. Now for each safe way, there must be a dozen unsafe ways- enough to keep this thread going for a long time. Well, of course someone could start a new Insane Rappel Methods thread.

[dan_forester]

hardman rappelling kit:

 

1 skyhook

35 feet of 1/2" webbing

3 spools of dental floss (1 mint, 2 cinnamon)

2 sticks of big red chewing gum

harness made of seatbelts

1 carabiner found at the base of el cap

[Off_White]

"Speed is safety" - generalissimo Mark Twight

 

I believe ol' Yvon Chouinard said this in Climbing Ice, along with "if you carry bivy gear, you will bivy" and "there is no rockfall in Sierra gullies in September."

[Jamin]

So what is the big deal with rapping down a rope the normal way without a knot in the end.