Infinite Bliss

[tradclimbguy]

We did the route in just under 4hrs with 22 draws and simuled all but two pitches or three spots on the route.

 

Damn doood. What held you up? I did it in 3:30 with 21 draws and only pitched out one or two pitches.

 

Gaper.

 

Hahaha. I'm old, thats my excuse. 4hrs isnt that fast either, but if thats bragging and you go slower then haha on you! oh, and did I say 22 draws I meant 20 to beat your 21, hehe. You guys crack me up.

 

Naaah, doesn't matter how fast you do it. My wife and I would average about 30min a pitch and probably spend the entire day on the thing, but if you simul the hole thing 5 pitches literally turns into 20 minutes or so. Just imagine running up a steep slab with a bit of juggy steeper climbing in between. And like I said others have run the thing in about an hour and I don't think pitched anything out.

 

It's all good. The climb was fun. Not my normal foray but I do remember thinking it was kind of a cool spot to be in half way up this big slab of rock that you otherwise wouldn't bother getting on.

[chris]

I climbed it a few years ago. This year my goal is to climb it again, then to repeat the original West Face solo ascent - I'm convinced that the WF solo only shares a few pitches with IB, and I want to see for myself.

[Raindawg]

....how can a REAL climber not want to climb it?

 

This REAL climber thinks the "route" is an ethical atrocity.

"Enjoy" it while it lasts....its days are numbered.

[chris]

....how can a REAL climber not want to climb it?

 

This REAL climber thinks the "route" is an ethical atrocity.

"Enjoy" it while it lasts....its days are numbered.

And you say you're from Exit 39!

[kevbone]

....how can a REAL climber not want to climb it?

 

This REAL climber thinks the "route" is an ethical atrocity.

"Enjoy" it while it lasts....its days are numbered.

 

Please explain. Why would you say that?

 

You know people bag on it for certain reasons. Rap bolted???? ….if you think this way…..never again climb at smith. Two it’s in a wilderness area…..SO FUCKING WHAT. I didn’t hear you complain when they built I 90 though the wilderness area.

 

Climbs to me are like a piece of art. Would you go destroy someone else’s painting/sculpture just because you don’t like it? If you say yes to this. Please do not have offspring. The world does not need more thinkers like you.

 

If you or anyone thinks they can just start destroying routes / artwork at there leisure, you will be setting a very bad precedent. Basically starting a war. You think Iraq is bad.

 

Edited April 13, 2007 by kevbone

[tradclimbguy]

Ahhh boy, here it goes again.

 

If you have the time to go chop a route with so many bolts you've got too much time on your hands that could be better spent cleaning good routes up at index that could use some attention. hint hint hint.

 

I guess this is it for this thread... time for all the spray masters to take over and start the bitching and moaning fest that is likely to ensue.

 

So... Continue with the whiny drivel... We all love reading the same old crappy argues anyways.

[kevbone]

If you have the time to go chop a route with so many bolts you've got too much time on your hands that

 

Well said.

[tradclimbguy]

If you have the time to go chop a route with so many bolts you've got too much time on your hands that

 

Well said.

 

Thanks, but you forgot the most important part of my quote.

 

If you have that much time go do something useful or positive for the climbing community. PM me and I could give you a big list of Index climbs that could really use some TLC. All that damn moss is taking over

[ken4ord]

Thanks all for the info......cant wait to get on it. JH you want to partner up for it? If you dont like it.....just dont clip the bolts.

 

Actually that is something I would like to do. I have been on the route twice it is long outing that is close to town. Not best route around nor the worse, could go on gear by doing a little more wandering, but for the most part you could stay mainly true to the route on gear.

[kevbone]

Are you saying that you could climb the route on gear?

[ken4ord]

I think so, it would be run out, but make it more fun I think. The upper pitches would stray from the bolted line, unless you like no gear easy 10 climbing.

[kevbone]

Isnt it run out already?

[Raindawg]

....how can a REAL climber not want to climb it?

 

This REAL climber thinks the "route" is an ethical atrocity.

"Enjoy" it while it lasts....its days are numbered.

 

Please explain. Why would you say that?

 

You know people bag on it for certain reasons. Rap bolted???? ….if you think this way…..never again climb at smith. Two it’s in a wilderness area…..SO F#$%ING WHAT. I didn’t hear you complain when they built I 90 though the wilderness area."

 

Hey, vulgar-mouth: DO YOUR HOMEWORK. This is a HEAVILY debated topic involving the issues of bolting in the wilderness, bringing sport-climbing into the mountains, etc. Aside from that, this particular "route" involves controversy about wilderness boundaries. Do a little searching in the cc.com archives and you'll learn some of the in's and out's before you start popping off like I'm the first guy to say this.

 

Regarding I-90....the first road was put through the area in 1867, the first car crossed in 1905. A railroad tunneled through in 1909.

Where was I?....my parents were still children when the road was paved in 1934!

As far as I-90 in its present state: it was enlarged with great sensitivity to environmental considerations...which is one reason you have that massive elevated bridge over Denny Creek.

By the way....roads are a separate issue....you want to stand in one place the rest of your life? then trails and roads are necessary. Where they go and how big they are is a huge topic which isn't even relevant in this "Infinite Bliss" "discussion".

 

If you or anyone thinks they can just start destroying routes / artwork at there leisure, you will be setting a very bad precedent. Basically starting a war. You think Iraq is bad.

 

Comparing chopping a route to the war in Iraq is probably the stupidest thing I've ever seen on this site.

There is no precedent being set here....it's been going on for years. Learn your history.

Do some more homework...do a search, for example, on the topic of "Dan's Dreadful Direct" on Castle Rock in Leavenworth. Again, do your homework.

P.S. Yeah....I think Iraq is bad. Climbing is utterly inconsequential in comparison....think about it.

 

Mr. Chris say:

And you say you're from Exit 39!

That's a joke, son....just like Exit 38 is a joke.

 

Mr. Tradclimbguy say:

If you have that much time go do something useful or positive for the climbing community. PM me and I could give you a big list of Index climbs that could really use some TLC..

 

First of all, I don't believe that there is a "climbing community". Who would you include? Every kid who attended a birthday-party at a rock gym and ran out to buy a pair of climbing shoes at the REI?

At one time there probably was such a "community", but ever since climbing has been mass-marketed via "sport-climbing" and the gyms, everyone and everybody seems to be a climber.

Secondly, Index isn't the issue here (although it has its own problems with bolted cracks and such); sport-bolting in the mountains/wilderness is.

 

"Kevbone" say:

Please do not have offspring. The world does not need more thinkers like you.

 

I'm just going to assume that this is just another one of your immature comments as you are now insulting my family. I really do expect an apology.

 

 

 

[tradclimbguy]

Mr. Tradclimbguy say:

If you have that much time go do something useful or positive for the climbing community. PM me and I could give you a big list of Index climbs that could really use some TLC..

 

First of all, I don't believe that there is a "climbing community". Who would you include? Every kid who attended a birthday-party at a rock gym and ran out to buy a pair of climbing shoes at the REI?

At one time there probably was such a "community", but ever since climbing has been mass-marketed via "sport-climbing" and the gyms, everyone and everybody seems to be a climber.

Secondly, Index isn't the issue here (although it has its own problems with bolted cracks and such); sport-bolting in the mountains/wilderness is.

 

I think we have a climbing community, maybe not what you are thinking but wouldn't you consider you and your personal climbing friends a "climbing community", I would. If I fixed up an approach trail, picked up garbage at a local crag, maybe cleaned off a mossy climb at Index I'd say that would be helping out the climbing community whether it was just for me and my buddy the next time we showed up.

 

And don't get so high and mighty on keeping on topic especially when you yourself blabber on about I-freaking-90 and Iraq. I'm not arguing about bolted cracks at Index, thats just you trolling...

 

How about I revise my comment yet again, maybe this time vague enough to make a point...

 

Tradclimbguy's edited comment for rain doggy:

"If you have that much time to waste go do something positive instead"

 

End of Story.

[TrogdortheBurninator]

Why do people constantly confuse legality with ethics. Rap bolting in a wilderness area is a legal issue (with power drills). Rap bolting in the mountains is an ethical issue. People seem to constantly throw out the whole wilderness area argument regarding IB, but I don't see how that is an issue that should carry much weight with climbers (except maybe in the context of access concerns). I respect a decision to dislike all forms of rap bolting, but to use the wilderness area argument sounds like you are digging pretty hard for an excuse.

 

 

[kevbone]

Blah…blah…blah….Thanks for all the spray Dwanyer……I just one question for you.

 

Have you climbed this route?

 

I didn’t think so.

 

You sound like the conservative that bags on certain drugs (like pot); because a doctor or scientists tells them it’s bad. One big problem I see with this is the guy bagging on it: is he has never tried it for himself. Try climbing the route, and then I “might” give you credibility as you your comments. Otherwise you are just another sprayer on this site.

 

I knew you would shoot me down about my I 90 comments (I admit it was week). And the Iraq comments sucked as well….its all I could think at the time.

 

Story: I have recently been involved with a crises on a newly developed crag. Some new guys came in and (what we thought) squeezed in a route. This did cause a lot of conflict. Some of the original route setters could not get away from the Chop word. I tried so hard to get them to move away from this mentality. As soon as you start chopping it sets a precedent that anybody can chop any bolt just because you don’t like it. This thought process would be harmful of the crag that EVERYBODY enjoys……when you start chopping? Who wins? Nobody. Everybody loses.

 

Chopping shows the worst part of climbing, shows how low you can go. Chopping is no better than graffiti with paint on the capital building. Fucking disgusting. If you don’t like the route….don ‘t climb it.

 

And yes I know this is an old topic. Matter of fact this topic is how I got into spray in the first place. I am not new to this topic.

 

I have yet to hear you state why it is an ethnic atrocity. I can only imagine. Rap bolted and wilderness area reasons are both weak. You got anything else?

 

[NTM]

wilderness areas are simply political boundries. IB is not that far from 38 and 32 (geographically), so, like troggie, said, why use "wilderness" as an excuse?

we obviously have to draw the line somewhere, but just because a hunk of rock is closer to the road than another makes it acceptable to bolt/visa versa?

[kevbone]

Why do people constantly confuse legality with ethics. Rap bolting in a wilderness area is a legal issue (with power drills). Rap bolting in the mountains is an ethical issue.

 

Legality is not the issue in my mind. I mean, let’s be real for a few minutes! When have climbers abided by the LAW? Haven’t you (meaning all climbers) ever pouched a climb that is closed? Have you ever driven over the speed limit, or smoked pot? Legality……come on….let use a better excuse to hate than that.

 

Rap bolting? Is that why the hate? Those who use that as an excuse better not ever climb at smith rock. If you do you are a huge hypocrite.

 

[JosephH]

Climbs to me are like a piece of art. Would you go destroy someone else’s painting/sculpture just because you don’t like it?

 

Climbs are art, though personally I find bolted routes to be more pop than fine art. A lot of graffiti is also art, the question it raises isn't so much the quality of the art, however debatable that is, but it's location and the canvas it was painted on. As far as I'm concerned Ignorant Bliss is just that - bad graffiti which we as a community had a responsibility to remove as soon as it appeared. Instead it turned in to a case study in collective handwringing, paralysis and an embarrassing inability of our community to assert and police itself responsibly.

 

All routes and bolts are not equally righteous, aesthetically valid, or even legitimate. Those who think bolting is a one-way event - they go in and should never come out - should then think that much harder about where and why they are placed if they want to prevent wars. They should also think long and hard about what is lost each time a bolt is placed rather than just what is gained.

[kevbone]

JH....whats really funny is that you have drilled more bolts than me and I have put up 20 climbs, all mixed/sport.

[Choada_Boy]

JH....whats really funny is that you have drilled more bolts than me and I have put up 20 climbs, all mixed/sport.

 

20 climbs? WOW!

[DirtyHarry]

Kevbone: A couple of my buddies and I chopped the first five pitches of this atrocity of a route a few weeks ago and removed the hangers from the rest of it. Try to go climb it now. Ha!

[kevbone]

Kevbone: A couple of my buddies and I chopped the first five pitches of this route a few weeks ago and removed the hangers from the rest of the route. Try to go climb it now. Ha!

 

Wow, admitting you are a vandal. You are bold. Someone should burn your house down and slash your tires. See if it pisses you off.

 

If you are serious…..which I don’t think you are. Then that is too bad. Fortunately there is still lots to climb. Hopefully those who got to enjoy all the work that went into it got to enjoy it before the ego minded hippocratic purist bitches got to it.

 

Edited April 13, 2007 by kevbone

[Raindawg]

Blah…blah…blah….Thanks for all the spray Dwanyer……I just one question for you.

 

Have you climbed this route?

I didn’t think so.

You sound like the conservative that bags on certain drugs (like pot); because a doctor or scientists tells them it’s bad. One big problem I see with this is the guy bagging on it: is he has never tried it for himself. Try climbing the route, and then I “might” give you credibility as you your comments. Otherwise you are just another sprayer on this site.

 

You are philosophically ignorant. I need not try heroin nor suicide to know that I wish to participate in neither. I am oppossed to the whole concept of "Infinite Bliss"...from its location, its style (sport) and the manner in which it was established. I don't really care if there are really good moves on it...as far as I'm concerned, it shouldn't exist...it's illegitimate and shameful. I am by no means the only one who thinks this way.

 

 

I am not new to this topic.

 

By all indications, you seem to be.

 

I have yet to hear you state why it is an ethnic atrocity. I can only imagine. Rap bolted and wilderness area reasons are both weak.

 

The word is "ethical".

Three reasons were given above, all of which are contentious topics amongst climbers. There is nothing "weak" about it. You are not aware of this? Did you just start climbing yesterday???

 

 

I knew you would shoot me down about my I 90 comments (I admit it was week). And the Iraq comments sucked as well….its all I could think at the time.

 

Think before you post...or don't bother.

 

You got anything else?

 

Not for you. You can disagree if you like, many do,

but it's a waste of time "discussing" anything with you until you do your homework on the in's and out's of these issues and engage in some thoughtful consideration before you pop off.

 

I likely have nothing more to comment on this subject for now. I only made my statement about "enjoy it while it lasts" to bring up the fact to those that are unaware, that this route is extremely controversial. Those considering climbing "Infinite Bliss" should be aware of the issues and then thoughtfully decide whether or not they want to be involved in the mess. As for its continued existence, the only reason the route is still there is because there are major logistical and time issues involved in the proper removal and restoration of such a huge "route".

 

P.S. I'm still waiting for my apology.

 

[JosephH]

JH....whats really funny is that you have drilled more bolts than me and I have put up 20 climbs, all mixed/sport.

 

Kevin, I simply replaced belay/rap anchors while adding and removing a single protection bolt from an existing route (and not for my use). To-date, not a single route I've put up in thirty three years has a protection bolt on it and only one has fixed anchors I've installed.