Nappy Headed Hos

[ZimZam]

he said 'nappy headed hos'... what in that statement has anything to do w/ race??

 

Oh puh-lease. That is incredibly disingenuous. Give me a fucking break. He's referring to the natural hair quality of Americans of African descent, in a derogatory way. And he's specifically implying that a black woman is as good as a whore.

 

Of course it's OK to mock Condie rice in the style as posted by KBoner a few weeks back. That didn't seem to bother you one bit, now did it? She's regularly blasted by lefties, denigrated, mocked and given no respect - and it is done in a sexist, racist manner. And she's done a lot more with her life - with many more achievements - than a college basketball player.

 

K-pecker and Stink don't have a nationally syndicated show or audience though. Just us.

[underworld]

he said 'nappy headed hos'... what in that statement has anything to do w/ race??

 

Oh puh-lease. That is incredibly disingenuous. Give me a fucking break. He's referring to the natural hair quality of Americans of African descent, in a derogatory way. And he's specifically implying that a black woman is as good as a whore.

 

I'd fire his ass. It's not about the "hypersensitivity" of American culture or any other issue. It's about making bigoted remarks about black Americans in the media. If he works with any black people, I would also sue him for creating a hostile work environment.

 

Given the history of black-white relations in America, it's not OK to talk this way in a public (privately owned) media, and on the job. Unless you work for the KKK or Aryan fucking Nations.

 

Personally, his taste in clothes alone should get him slammed.

 

you, the media and other wackos are the ones that are making it about race. you're making the connection of black=ho. we can nit pick here... sure he was commenting on their hair. saying it was nappy. that's simply a comment on THEIR hair. the team does not represent all blacks, nor does commenting on their hair make them any less of a person. again, i agree that it isn't a nice thing to say. just as calling them hoes is not nice either, but the simple statement doesn't make the race connection. black rappers call women hoes more than dj's do. how do you see that impacting the black/white relations??

[underworld]

in other words....

he called them hoes without knowing whether or not they were hoes. (yes, this is wrong to do) did he do it it because they were basketball players? was it because they were black? was it because they were from rutgers? was it because they were women? was it because of what they were wearing?

 

could be ANY of that.... but you've picked the race card.

[StevenSeagal]

The point is being made- rightfully- that Imus abused his position in the media and his influence in the culture by speaking this way.

 

Now I am in no way going to use the argument of "they say it so we can too"- I don't argue that- but I'd like to address a point that many people privately question. How much longer is the majority exposure of popular "black culture" in America going to be represented and conveyed to the public at large by rap artists and comedians who without any restraint use the words "ho" for women, and the N word for fellow African Americans (as a sort of term of endearment, no less)? It doesn't excuse people's lack of knowledge of history, but the younger people in this country weren't around when racism was an open and sanctioned thing in this society. They grow up hearing blacks speak this way and, no matter what the history, there's confusion about why it's okay for a black man to say it, but if a white man says the N word even in context of an explanation it's this horrible, oppressive, inexcusable deed. The fact that most people even while trying to simply discuss it called it the "N word" as I am doing indicates a fear of even uttering it, yet it's thrown about with so much abandon in the black community and in popular music. Yet...the influence of black culture on white youth is undeniable.

 

Many black leaders are calling for an end to the use of the N word and also a change in the attitudes expressed towards women. I wholeheartedly agree with this call, and I think it would go a long way towards a unity of the black and white cultures, and also go a long way towards lifting the black community's perpetual message to itself of: you're a victim, you're oppressed, and most importantly, you'll always be oppressed. I'm white, and it may be easy for me to say this, but I don't believe any of those things about blacks. These days, anyway, people are as oppressed and as victimized as they want to be- or more accurately, as much as their culture tells them they are. The true racists are easily marginalized and outcast.

 

Imus made a really ignorant, insensitive comment; maybe he should lose his job, maybe not. The listeners (or lack thereof) will probably decide that for him if the networks don't do it first. How does an old cracker like Imus learn the term "ho" anyway? Do you think he was influenced by black culture, because I am pretty sure it's not a white term. It in no way excuses his using it to describe these women he knows nothing about, but I really do think this guy honestly believes he was using cultural slang to be funny and cool, and it backfired bigtime. How many white people do you know who joke around using black slang and rap lingo, invariably including the n-word in hip hop context? Are we all supposed to absorb and appreciate this heavily marketed "black culture" but then expect no one to emulate it, because your skin color determines whether you are either authentic, or a hateful racist?

 

The point I would make is simple: whites need to learn some history and better understand black sensitivities, and blacks, for their part, need to form and project a more empowering and respectful set of terms to describe themselves (and women) that everyone can freely use, if there's really interest in a meshing of our cultures. Unless, of course, everyone's preference is eternal polarization, ignorance, and the end result- racism.

 

 

[underworld]

The point is being made- rightfully- that Imus abused his position in the media and his influence in the culture by speaking this way.

 

Now I am in no way going to use the argument of "they say it so we can too"- I don't argue that- but I'd like to address a point that many people privately question. How much longer is the majority exposure of popular "black culture" in America going to be represented and conveyed to the public at large by rap artists and comedians who without any restraint use the words "ho" for women, and the N word for fellow African Americans (as a sort of term of endearment, no less)? It doesn't excuse people's lack of knowledge of history, but the younger people in this country weren't around when racism was an open and sanctioned thing in this society. They grow up hearing blacks speak this way and, no matter what the history, there's confusion about why it's okay for a black man to say it, but if a white man says the N word even in context of an explanation it's this horrible, oppressive, inexcusable deed. The fact that most people even while trying to simply discuss it called it the "N word" as I am doing indicates a fear of even uttering it, yet it's thrown about with so much abandon in the black community and in popular music. Yet...the influence of black culture on white youth is undeniable.

 

Many black leaders are calling for an end to the use of the N word and also a change in the attitudes expressed towards women. I wholeheartedly agree with this call, and I think it would go a long way towards a unity of the black and white cultures, and also go a long way towards lifting the black community's perpetual message to itself of: you're a victim, you're oppressed, and most importantly, you'll always be oppressed. I'm white, and it may be easy for me to say this, but I don't believe any of those things about blacks. These days, anyway, people are as oppressed and as victimized as they want to be- or more accurately, as much as their culture tells them they are. The true racists are easily marginalized and outcast.

 

Imus made a really ignorant, insensitive comment; maybe he should lose his job, maybe not. The listeners (or lack thereof) will probably decide that for him if the networks don't do it first. How does an old cracker like Imus learn the term "ho" anyway? Do you think he was influenced by black culture, because I am pretty sure it's not a white term. It in no way excuses his using it to describe these women he knows nothing about, but I really do think this guy honestly believes he was using cultural slang to be funny and cool, and it backfired bigtime. How many white people do you know who joke around using black slang and rap lingo, invariably including the n-word in hip hop context? Are we all supposed to absorb and appreciate this heavily marketed "black culture" but then expect no one to emulate it, because your skin color determines whether you are either authentic, or a hateful racist?

 

The point I would make is simple: whites need to learn some history and better understand black sensitivities, and blacks, for their part, need to form and project a more empowering and respectful set of terms to describe themselves (and women) that everyone can freely use, if there's really interest in a meshing of our cultures. Unless, of course, everyone's preference is eternal polarization, ignorance, and the end result- racism.

 

 

[JosephH]

Again, always good to hear from you racists when you think you have sufficient cover to come out from under your rocks. Your form of racism is among the most unpalatable mainly for the sneering and unmitigated cowardice it hides behind most of the time. It is the worst sort of cowardice and, again, I just can't think of anything sadder or more pathetic than the plaintive whine of the [priviledged] white male.

[Dechristo]

Is race guilt hereditary?

[sk]

this is interesting to me as i was thinking about racisum yesterday. the most racist thing i think i have heard lately was a white co-worker telling me how much she "Loves chocolate boys and i should try one becuase they are awsome." i found that offensive as i generaly seek lovers becusae of similure interests or common something. i don't think it has ever had anything to do with anyones colour. I have had black men hit on me but never in a way that made me want to go home with the ones that did. i can not think of an instance where i was aproached in a polite or interesting mannor by a man of african decent. i do not take kindly to being called a ho or a bitch or being told that "you should come home with me tonight cus i am all that" I am not fond of the rap or hip hop culture or music. maybe i am just to white to understand. I did have a black woman in a native american lit class tell me i was racist becuase i was white blonde and have blue eyes. maybe that is true. i don't know.

[underworld]

Again, always good to hear from you racists when you think you have sufficient cover to come out from under your rocks. Your form of racism is among the most unpalatable mainly for the sneering and unmitigated cowardice it hides behind most of the time. It is the worst sort of cowardice and, again, I just can't think of anything sadder or more pathetic than the plaintive whine of the [priviledged] white male.

 

please describe what characteristics make someone NOT racist.

[drater]

muffy, you obviously need to move to Idaho.

Edited April 12, 2007 by Blowboarder

[AlpineK]

I think Don Imus can say whatever he wants as long as he's doing it on his free time, or at least he's going to have to get a narrower paying audience. Once you start publically speaking on major media you get held to a higher standard. Given these standards I'm sure there are others that might deserve firing. Don made a big enough impression on people that there was an outcry.

 

I figure CBS will drop him for good, but fans will still be able to pick him up on Westwood One (or whatever it is) somewhere. After all you can pick up all kinds of fucked up shit on the radio; just take a late night drive anywhere and start flipping the AM dials.

[drater]

just take a late night drive anywhere and start flipping the AM dials.

 

aliens WILL snatch and probe you!

[kevbone]

I love speculation threads!

[underworld]

i think i would too

[knotzen]

he said 'nappy headed hos'... what in that statement has anything to do w/ race??

 

Oh puh-lease. That is incredibly disingenuous. Give me a fucking break. He's referring to the natural hair quality of Americans of African descent, in a derogatory way. And he's specifically implying that a black woman is as good as a whore.

 

Of course it's OK to mock Condie rice in the style as posted by KBoner a few weeks back. That didn't seem to bother you one bit, now did it? She's regularly blasted by lefties, denigrated, mocked and given no respect - and it is done in a sexist, racist manner. And she's done a lot more with her life - with many more achievements - than a college basketball player.

Didn't see it.

[knotzen]

Nah. Bigotry and racial hatred are too real and destructive, Erik.

 

But I've said my piece; y'all go on blithely skipping through life, now.

 

How many thousands of years is your soul willing to suffer through that kind of personal responsibility? Because it is not new, that.

 

How long do you expect me to live?!

 

It's not a personal "race guilt" for me.

 

American society has evolved over the years so that public evidence of hating people who are African/slave descendants is not the accepted norm. In my grandfather's generation there would be some dissent over this sort of thing; a generation or two before, little or none at all. Now there is. Personally I want to see that evolution continue.

[knotzen]

black rappers call women hoes more than dj's do. how do you see that impacting the black/white relations??

Exactly. And black culture is trying to change that. Which is why this doesn't help.

 

But you're not looking at the big picture, dood.

[underworld]

black rappers call women hoes more than dj's do. how do you see that impacting the black/white relations??

Exactly. And black culture is trying to change that. Which is why this doesn't help.

 

But you're not looking at the big picture, dood.

 

black pop culture doesn't seem to be trying to change it. but typical everyday black culture...it doesn't seem to be an issue. they are all just one of the guys (or gals). things are pretty color blind.

[knotzen]

Now for my other beef- where is the outrage when Whoopi, Chris Rock, and other A.A. comics denegrate European Americans, or does that not count.

The other day I heard an interview of black women talking about whether they would vote for Barak Obama or Hillary Clinton. One young woman said she wouldn't trust Clinton to watch out for her needs as a black American woman because Clinton is a white woman. The black woman had a bigoted mindset that separated "white woman" into a category that was naturally separate from and antagonistic to her own "category."

 

So yeah, "reverse racism" is fucked up, too. I'm with you on that.

[underworld]

it pisses me off when people talk about 'fat americans'....same thing, no?

[Jim]

Here's an opinion from a pretty classy African American woman, rather than a bunch of hand wringing white folks.

 

Trash Talk Radio

By Gwen Ifill

The New York Times

 

Tuesday 10 April 2007

 

Washington - Let's say a word about the girls. The young women with the musical names. Kia and Epiphanny and Matee and Essence. Katie and Dee Dee and Rashidat and Myia and Brittany and Heather.

 

The Scarlet Knights of Rutgers University had an improbable season, dropping four of their first seven games, yet ending up in the N.C.A.A. women's basketball championship game. None of them were seniors. Five were freshmen.

 

In the end, they were stopped only by Tennessee's Lady Vols, who clinched their seventh national championship by ending Rutgers' Cinderella run last week, 59-46. That's the kind of story we love, right? A bunch of teenagers from Newark, Cincinnati, Brooklyn and, yes, Ogden, Utah, defying expectations. It's what explodes so many March Madness office pools.

 

But not, apparently, for the girls. For all their grit, hard work and courage, the Rutgers girls got branded "nappy-headed ho's" - a shockingly concise sexual and racial insult, tossed out in a volley of male camaraderie by a group of amused, middle-aged white men. The "joke" - as delivered and later recanted - by the radio and television personality Don Imus failed one big test: it was not funny.

 

The serial apologies of Mr. Imus, who was suspended yesterday by both NBC News and CBS Radio for his remarks, have failed another test. The sincerity seems forced and suspect because he's done some version of this several times before.

 

I know, because he apparently did it to me.

 

I was covering the White House for this newspaper in 1993, when Mr. Imus's producer began calling to invite me on his radio program. I didn't return his calls. I had my hands plenty full covering Bill Clinton.

 

Soon enough, the phone calls stopped. Then quizzical colleagues began asking me why Don Imus seemed to have a problem with me. I had no idea what they were talking about because I never listened to the program.

 

It was not until five years later, when Mr. Imus and I were both working under the NBC News umbrella - his show was being simulcast on MSNBC; I was a Capitol Hill correspondent for the network - that I discovered why people were asking those questions. It took Lars-Erik Nelson, a columnist for The New York Daily News, to finally explain what no one else had wanted to repeat.

 

"Isn't The Times wonderful," Mr. Nelson quoted Mr. Imus as saying on the radio. "It lets the cleaning lady cover the White House."

 

I was taken aback but not outraged. I'd certainly been called worse and indeed jumped at the chance to use the old insult to explain to my NBC bosses why I did not want to appear on the Imus show.

 

I haven't talked about this much. I'm a big girl. I have a platform. I have a voice. I've been working in journalism long enough that there is little danger that a radio D.J.'s juvenile slap will define or scar me. Yesterday, he began telling people he never actually called me a cleaning lady. Whatever. This is not about me.

 

It is about the Rutgers Scarlet Knights. That game had to be the biggest moment of their lives, and the outcome the biggest disappointment. They are not old enough, or established enough, to have built up the sort of carapace many women I know - black women in particular - develop to guard themselves against casual insult.

 

Why do my journalistic colleagues appear on Mr. Imus's program? That's for them to defend, and others to argue about. I certainly don't know any black journalists who will. To his credit, Mr. Imus told the Rev. Al Sharpton yesterday he realizes that, this time, he went way too far.

 

Yes, he did. Every time a young black girl shyly approaches me for an autograph or writes or calls or stops me on the street to ask how she can become a journalist, I feel an enormous responsibility. It's more than simply being a role model. I know I have to be a voice for them as well.

 

So here's what this voice has to say for people who cannot grasp the notion of picking on people their own size: This country will only flourish once we consistently learn to applaud and encourage the young people who have to work harder just to achieve balance on the unequal playing field.

 

Let's see if we can manage to build them up and reward them, rather than opting for the cheapest, easiest, most despicable shots.

 

--------

 

Gwen Ifill is a senior correspondent for "The NewsHour With Jim Lehrer" and the moderator of "Washington Week."

 

[knotzen]

it pisses me off when people talk about 'fat americans'....same thing, no?

Three inches of fat is three inches of fat.

 

I'm talking about subjectively placing people in derogatory categories because of their ancestry.

 

Besides, if someone calls you fat, say "I may be fat, but you're ugly, and I can lose weight."

[knotzen]

She says it well.

[underworld]

it pisses me off when people talk about 'fat americans'....same thing, no?

Three inches of fat is three inches of fat.

 

I'm talking about subjectively placing people in derogatory categories because of their ancestry.

 

Besides, if someone calls you fat, say "I may be fat, but you're ugly, and I can lose weight."

 

so was i.

 

you also making my point w/ the 'if someone calls you...'

 

"i may be nappy headed...but i'm a good ball player"

 

 

people are going to say mean things. there are always tactless idiots. but do you sit and mope about it or get over it and prove em wrong?

 

[StevenSeagal]

I just can't think of anything sadder or more pathetic than the plaintive whine of the [priviledged] white male.

 

Joseph, this point may have some validity under certain contexts. Yet, if we're all just "priveleged white males", what role, then- if any- can today's white man (and woman) play in eroding the barriers between white and black, apart from self loathing for the actions of those in the past? Racism and prejudice is not new, it has existed since the dawn of time. It was not invented by whites or Americans. Demanding an end to racism in America by simply shaming white people into being quiet and polite may give the impression of progress to you, but such illusory cultural enlightenment isn't progressive at all. We're not going to get anywhere unless we talk openly about it.

 

Here in America, great strides have been made in eroding the institutional racism that once pervaded our culture. I think it's utopian to expect that prejudice will ever disappear completely, but simply applying a muzzle on parts of speech, condoning some forms of cultural imitation while forbidding others, coddling everyone's sensitivities, and instituting a climate of fear that prevents open discussion, is not going to bring us any closer to that, it only causes people to crawl "under their rocks" for fear of being labeled "racist".

 

Back to the original point, I'm interested in how you see the future of "racial harmony" in America, Joseph. When you see a black person, do you see an empowered person with infinite potential, or do you see an oppressed victim at an inherent, unchangable disadvantage? Which view manifests in your relationships with them? And most importantly, which one do you think does the most for that person's self empowerment?

 

At what point does ceaseless advocacy for circling the wagons around one's race, religion, culture, nationality, etc, begin to speak of one's desire to not actually integrate but to remain separate and therefore at odds with others?