Stealing fixed draws

[kevbone]

with sooo much shit talk'n here

 

I actually think the "shit talkin" has been kept to a minimum on this thread. Good job everyone for keeping a lid on it and just sticking to the subject posted!

[richard_noggin]

Who ever stole those draws was a climber and knew he was rip'n them off, he shall reap bad karma or maybe an ass woop'n, the climbing world is small place, if I was the ripoff I would be getting nervious about now KARMA

 

Hey noggin, sorry man to have to disagree with you on all points here:

 

1)...this "ass woop'n" caveman-posturing that you and some of the others talk about is passe. "Ass woopin'" in 2007 = "jail time" = 4 YOU.

 

2) Karma? How many of you really believe in that boring cliche?

 

3) The "climbing world" isn't a small place.....there are huge numbers of people calling themselves "climbers", like ants on a dropped Jolly Rancher. (see my comments somewhere about about how sport-climbing and gyms made climbing accessible to the semi-informed masses.)

 

4) Stealing? Like a few of the other people discussing this topic, I'd like to high-five the guy who picked up the vertical litter.

 

 

 

i was just more disturbed by the people saying they would throw the draws away. To a 17 year old like my self that stuff adds up!

 

Young Eggplant-Head: By the time you're 17, hopefully you've learned to clean up after your outdoor adventures. Some people never get the message.

Leaving the retrieved junk at the base of the climb is one option, I suppose, but there is no guarantee that someone who left the stuff is coming back nor that someone will "steal" it. One might argue that it should be treated the same way as that tractor tire someone threw off the cliff or the other refuse that those "non-climbing gorge-concert dudes" who are always blamed leave at Vantage. [it get's the rolling eyes because I've seen climbers leave plenty of litter.] Is cleaning up a mess "stealing"? Should we just leave that tractor tire out there cuz it's somebody else's stuff? Or that lawn chair with the torn seat that's sitting toppled over by an impromptu campsite on a Monday morning?

 

same with the dog there is no way i would ever bring my dog out to the crag simply because it isnt that nice to other people. just last weekend a dog pissed on my foot. i couldnt believe it.

 

You find it hard to believe that a dog would piss on your foot? You are lucky it wasn't your rope or pack! They'll snarl, scare local wildlife and get into your stuff. I was belaying a guy way up on a hillside in Icicle Canyon once, tied into an anchor, while I watched a dog rummage through our packs and take our food! The dog's owner was three pitches up and could care less.

Leave "Chilkoot", "Denali", and "Gri-Gri" at home. Lots of folks don't like dogs and the issues they create. Speaking of

Vantage...I knew a guy who took his dog out to Vantage where he was parked somewhere around the vicinity of "Air Guitar". Twice in the same day the beast was nearly killed by rock fall that came within inches.

Bow-wow! "Bad dog! Go home!"

 

 

 

 

jail time for me = hospital time for you and thats if you can see through a blanket BTW thats just joke'n

In 2007 some are soo old and old skool that little things mean alot and after years of seeing it Karma = live by the sword die by the sword,reap what ye shall soe,what goes around comes around.

Sorry not as much to say as you, I guess I don't like to see myself talk as much as you

 

[catbirdseat]

If old skewl means cleaning up after yourself, taking care of the environment, showing respect for your fellow climbers and self-reliance, call me old skewl.

[richard_noggin]

Yes old skool cleaning up, not leaveing shit paper flying in the brezze, taking care of your dog if you bring one,not being a dick at the crag.

shank'n some ones fixed draws( especially a local work'n the route) thats new skool, punk ass, it's all about you, no respect for your fellow climbers or the crag, that is so typical of the 80% of climbers that I choose not climb around .

SO WHO'S GOT THE DRAWS ???

BTW CBS your cool and treat the crag and other climbers with respect

[kevbone]

BTW CBS your cool and treat the crag and other climbers with respect

 

What about me? Im cool, and treat the crag and other climbers with respect. If you dont believe me...just ask me!

[billcoe]

SO WHO'S GOT THE DRAWS ???

 

It's been already posted on this thread and on another thread as well: per my earlier suggestion, you might try reading the thread, there are currently 6 pages, theres a spot up there you can click on previous pages and read them.

 

Or not, say if you'd rather just continue to blather on cause it's all about you and nothing anybody else says has any importance to you:D .....whatever works for ya babe.

[richard_noggin]

BTW CBS your cool and treat the crag and other climbers with respect

 

What about me? Im cool, and treat the crag and other climbers with respect. If you dont believe me...just ask me!

I have no doubt!

The cyber person and the real person can be take'n differently, because something you might say as a joke in the writen word can inflame, that is why sometimes I say after ward it's a joke, and my cyber name is Dick Head who could take seriously a person called Dick Head

[richard_noggin]

SO WHO'S GOT THE DRAWS ???

 

It's been already posted on this thread and on another thread as well: per my earlier suggestion, you might try reading the thread, there are currently 6 pages, theres a spot up there you can click on previous pages and read them.

 

Or not, say if you'd rather just continue to blather on cause it's all about you and nothing anybody else says has any importance to you:D .....whatever works for ya babe.

 

Just to be a Dick Head theres 16 pages of cyber babble The last I talked to dude he did not have the draws ,so lets make it simple tell me the page and other topic that tells me the for real person who took draws and there reasoning.

And I still want to know what an OP is ??

[billcoe]

lets make it simple tell me the page and other topic that tells me the for real person who took draws and there reasoning.

 

Nah, this is more fun don't ya think. We can extend it long enough that the rooster, the otter and the nodder all show up at once and have a bloody fist fight followed by an orgy.

 

 

 

And I still want to know what an OP is ??

 

OP = Origonal Poster. Who BTW (By the Way) is probably outclimbing everone on the board cause he's out climbing and we're all just shittalkin about climbing.

[richard_noggin]

lets make it simple tell me the page and other topic that tells me the for real person who took draws and there reasoning.

 

Nah, this is more fun don't ya think. We can extend it long enough that the rooster, the otter and the nodder all show up at once and have a bloody fist fight followed by an orgy.

 

 

 

And I still want to know what an OP is ??

 

OP = Origonal Poster. Who BTW (By the Way) is probably outclimbing everone on the board cause he's out climbing and we're all just shittalkin about climbing.

 

thanks now I know what OP is I'm not very cyber savy

and your right he isn't work'n at this time and he is moving into the 12's and climbs hard on gear

dang those young punkassmofo's

[billcoe]

 

thanks now I know what OP is I'm not very cyber savy

 

Me either, I use my own name online. How stupid is that?

 

and your right he isn't work'n at this time and he is moving into the 12's and climbs hard on gear

dang those young punkassmofo's

 

Sigh.... so typical, about the only people not outclimbing me these days are disabled 3rd graders. I do, however, console myself that I'm having more fun.....at least till I see them swinging back and forth on the rope as they lower off of 13s yelling wheeeeee....sigh.

 

Regards

 

Bill

[Weekend_Climberz]

If old skewl means cleaning up after yourself, taking care of the environment, showing respect for your fellow climbers and self-reliance, call me old skewl.

 

It's not old skewl, it's boy scout ethics. That also fits the younger crowd

[tvashtarkatena]

Hey, everybody. I left a rack of Camalots, 4 Friends, 400 Neutrinos, 137 ft of webbing, 19 screamers, a stuffed snaffle named 'Bucky', my 'drivin' CD collection, a bong, and a half eaten bag of Cheetos on a new route I was working on in Renton, where I'm a local. I go back 4 months later, and someone's jacked my shit! Whut up?

[Weekend_Climberz]

Hey, everybody. I left a rack of Camalots, 4 Friends, 400 Neutrinos, 137 ft of webbing, 19 screamers, a stuffed snaffle named 'Bucky', my 'drivin' CD collection, a bong, and a half eaten bag of Cheetos on a new route I was working on in Renton, where I'm a local. I go back 4 months later, and someone's jacked my shit! Whut up?

 

I have your bong, a stuffed snaffle with "Bucky" scribbled on the retail tag in black Sharpie, a bunch of scratched CDs, and an empty bag of Cheetos somewhere

 

Maybe I should quit using the bong so I can try to remember where I put them all

[billcoe]

Maybe ya need to put the bong down and find the damn sheep.

 

Get yer priorities straight will ya. baa

[Weekend_Climberz]

Shit, I forgot about the sheep. I gotta go....

[eggplant]

Hey, everybody. I left a rack of Camalots, 4 Friends, 400 Neutrinos, 137 ft of webbing, 19 screamers, a stuffed snaffle named 'Bucky', my 'drivin' CD collection, a bong, and a half eaten bag of Cheetos on a new route I was working on in Renton, where I'm a local. I go back 4 months later, and someone's jacked my shit! Whut up?

 

wow, i only heard this joke 4 times now on 7 pages.

 

way to be original..

 

ps. raindawg i see where your coming from, personally i dont leave my draws if i dont have to, simply because im afraid of people taking them. the few i have a 32 are left because i dont think that group would mess with them, but you never know in this day.

[richard_noggin]

ok after 17 pages this is spray not that there is anything wrong wit that, i actually love it, time to move it.

friday night

Edited March 31, 2007 by richard_noggin

[high_on_rock]

I previously climbed at an area with limited people. They left draws on routes they were doing, I often bailed on routes and left draws temporarily. I then discovered that my draws were being taken due to this "ethical" difference between a bail biner and a project biner. Once discovered, we made a deal that if they start leaving my gear alone, I would continue to leave their gear alone.

 

The current problem arrises when we start thinking that we have a common set of ethics, which is just not true. Any bolting discussion will show the difference in our ethical positions. When is gear "booty" verses someone elses gear to be left alone? I have no doubt that there are many differing views also. My advice is take your gear with you if you don't want someone else to own it. Their taking the gear does not necessarily make them bad, it could mean that they are dealing with a different set of "common ethics" than you are.

[Maxtrax]

Just noticed this thread... I took your draws down. I got to the powerhouse wall psyched to send "my project" king of the ruins only to find some random draws up on it with shitty looking webbing that I didn't trust. We didn't see another soul within earshot of the powerhouse wall the entire weekend so i took em down and left em clipped at the bottom of the route.

 

I think you had absolutely no business leaving draws up on that route. If you have any business on king of the ruins it should be no problem to climb the .11a next to it to get to the anchors and hang/clean the draws on rappel. That's what I did the 2 days I was working on king of the ruins.

[pope]

Just noticed this thread... I took your draws down. I got to the powerhouse wall psyched to send "my project" king of the ruins only to find some random draws up on it with shitty looking webbing that I didn't trust. ..... If you have any business on king of the ruins it should be no problem to climb the .11a next to it to get to the anchors and hang/clean the draws on rappel. That's what I did the 2 days I was working on king of the ruins.

 

I have no interest in "projecting" or whatever the kids are calling a practice for which we, back in the day, had another (dirty) word: sieging. And nevermind the draws, the bolts are garbage as well. But even if you don't share my opinion of the circus called "sport climbing", you must admit that Maxtrax nails the problem squarely. I never trust webbing that's been sitting around in the elements, and I don't trust 'biners I find on climbs or at the base of a climb. I don't know their history, don't know if the owner has been careful to avoid dropping or cross-loading the 'biners. Anybody with an interest in avoiding appearing in the headlines of the nightly news should be similarly suspicious.

 

When you leave your gear hanging off of fixed protection, you give other climbers two choices: either climb the route trusting the quick draws you left hanging from the bolts, or make exaggerated efforts to first remove the gear prior to their ascent. Neither option is fair to other climbers, and so ultimately we get back to why climbers should approach their sport the way educated backpackers do, by assuming that subsequent adventure seekers DO NOT wish to experience anything more than a minimum of evidence that previous parties were there.

[mattp]

The current problem arrises when we start thinking that we have a common set of ethics, which is just not true. Any bolting discussion will show the difference in our ethical positions. When is gear "booty" verses someone elses gear to be left alone? I have no doubt that there are many differing views also. My advice is take your gear with you if you don't want someone else to own it. Their taking the gear does not necessarily make them bad, it could mean that they are dealing with a different set of "common ethics" than you are.

[kevbone]

Hey, everybody. I left a rack of Camalots, 4 Friends, 400 Neutrinos, 137 ft of webbing, 19 screamers, a stuffed snaffle named 'Bucky', my 'drivin' CD collection, a bong, and a half eaten bag of Cheetos on a new route I was working on in Renton, where I'm a local. I go back 4 months later, and someone's jacked my shit! Whut up?

 

Maybe its time to change this to spay?

[Rainierwon]

Maybe its time to change this to spay?

And neuter?

[LUCKY]

It’s an ugly story and I won’t go into details but here is what I know to be true.

I have known Manimal for several years, he climbs mostly trad into the 11’s and is starting to venture into 12 sport routes , he is great to climb with or around and adds to the banter around the fire at the end of the day, this time of year I can always find him climbing at Frenchman’s Coulee, he is about as Local as you can get, he is not soft or well to do, as a matter of fact he is without wheels right now because his rig got stolen when he was fighting fire. On several occasions I have ask his advice because I know his ethics to be as solid as anyone’s. In fact his advice has kept me form placing bolts.

Minimal and a small crew have been working King of Ruins, due to the steepness of the route he had left the draws on for a short time, around a week, he knows that they could be stolen as booty as well as we all do and some of the well know climbers might even take them, they might also return them when they find out they know who’s they are, or not. So his draws get stolen he is pissed and rightfully so. In his venture to find who had them Alpine Monkey that Manimal knows tells him he has them. Minimal has yet to get his draws back and it has turned into a school girl ethics chip on the shoulder thing.

I advised Manimal to be the better man and let it go and I would advise Alpine Monkey to return the draws shake hands and get on with his climbing.

There are no ethics questions here just he said she said BS.