alpine packs

[wdietsch]

I am looking to replace my CCW Chernobyl and wondered if anyone out there has had any experience with the Mountain Tools packs, primarly the Ice Bash

[Beck]

This is not a reccommendation on any one pack or other, rather a lament that not many pack manufacturers make mid- 4,000 cu in packs that weigh under five pounds- Some of the Dana and Gregory packs weigh in at 7 pounds( if I'm remembering things correctly)- admittedly these are serious load haulers but you start out with a seven pound load w/o any gear. For light overnights you can get by with any maker's klettersack, I wish more companies would put out larger versions of the classic"garbage sack with straps" style pack- no side access zippers, no "spandura side panels" or other wierd crap that usually craps out when you're in the thick of it- I carry arcteryx Bora sometimes and also a great alpine pack from TNF that they don't make anymore- 4800 cu bivy extension sleeve spectra type fabric sub four pounds.

I hear raves about Kelty cloud and a similar pack they make- very very light and carry well, too!

 

[verticalturtle]

Beck check out some oof the other Arc'teryx packs like the Khamsin 62. The regular (medium) goes from 60-70l and weighs in @ 4lbs.

[Lambone]

My vote is for Wild Things. I own both the Ice Sac and Andinista. They are both dope. Light is right! Screw MEC and the internet. Buy Localy! Pro Mountain Sports or The Friends. Jim might give you better service depending on who you talk to at F.F., and how much beer they've had!

[This message has been edited by lambone (edited 05-28-2001).]

[This message has been edited by lambone (edited 05-28-2001).]

[LUCKY]

Wild Things Ice Sac for sale like new,blue $125.00 gibson@cco.net or trade forArc'Teryx Bora 40,Dana bomb or similar pack

[This message has been edited by LUCKY (edited 05-28-2001).]

[philfort]

Speaking of the bombpack - did they change the size of that or something? I'm currently looking to buy a pack in the 60L range for multiday trips, and I've noticed that 50L packs are a LOT bigger than my bombpack, which is specced at 52L. And I've got a large. I bought it about 6 or 7 years ago - did they change the size??? It's freaking me out.

Anyway, any suggestions for a lightweight alpine pack for multiday trips (say 2-4 days)? I'm headed to the St Elias range in a few weeks, and I definitely need something bigger than the Bombpack for multiday "sojourns" out of basecamp. My other pack, a Terraplane, is certainly big enough, but it weighs more than 7 pounds by itself.

I've been looking at stuff like the Wild Things Andinista, and the Arcteryx Khamsin 62. Is the Nozone big enough for something like this? Who sells Nozone's in Seattle?

phil

[Stefan]

I looked at all the alpine packs for what I do. Ice Sac, Nozone, Cold Cold World, Alpine Attacks, Marmot, Black Diamond. I do not ski or snowboard and I wanted something light. I knew that going light would mean lighter loads so I was looking in the 4000 cubic inch area. The best pack I found is the Climb High Jackpot. They only make limited ones becuase Climb High's supplier doesn't make enough. It works well for weights under 30 lbs. I would not trust it for weights over 30 lbs because it does not have any type of frame--it uses the foam pad for support. I am not an expert on cloth types but it feels like that spectra cloth used on the Kelty's.

The Climb High Jackpot has tool tubes, crampon pouch, removable top lid, side compression straps that have buckles (a must on any alpine pack), removable bivy foam pad, inside pouch to hold water bladder, and extendable main compartment that goes to my hips if I need to bivy.

[mattp]

Most of the posts indicate a concern for weight, but I do not see much discussion of how the packs might carry the weight of what is stuffed inside. Assuming that we are talking about packs which will be used to carry several days' food, storm clothing, a tent, sleeping bag, climbing hardware and ropes -- as opposed to a day-pack -- I believe the emphasis should be on a pack that carries that load comfortably rather than on a concern over whether the pack weighs 7 pounds empty or 5 pounds empty or even 3 pounds. Personally, I carry one of the heaviest packs you can get - a McHale - and I would not trade it for anything else in a normal mountaineering situation. I like it because the waist belt is the most comfortable I have ever had on any pack, and this is not something I could say about my Arcteryx Khamshin, because it is so tough (some say overbuilt) that I never worry about hauling it up a cliff or anchoring it by the haul loop, and because it doesn't have extras like a crampon pouch or shovel pocket or side pockets or a confusing load stabilizing strap system. While the McHale packs may not be for everybody, my point is that a pack should be tested with a full load in it and that the empty weight of that pack is probably the least important of all possible considerations. To lighten the load, leave behind all the doo-dads and extra food.

[Mike_Palmer]

The NOZONE is my choice for a great all around pack. It has the best suspension of any alpine pack out there. As you all know the first thing you do is overload it, and this pack will handle it. I've used it for three day glacier/ski trips as well as light alpine rock routes. It compresses well if you don't have a big load and you can strip off several pounds if you are going to use it as a seconding pack with the alternate waist belt. A well thought out pack. I haven't used anything else for three years.

Mike

[wdietsch]

Thanks for the latest feedback. Many of you have mentioned most of the packs I have been considering. I would agree that finding a good cross between pack weight itself and how a pack carries is one of the hardest aspects of considering an alpine pack.

The CCW Chernobyl is a great example of this. On one trip I made in Feb several years ago up Rainier the pack was great for both the ski to Muir and climb itself, however when It came time for the ski down (overstuffed you can imagine)it SUCKED!

I still would like to know if anyone out there has anything to say about the Mountian Tools Ice Bash

[Beck]

A big concern for the larger multiday packs is the carry. Light is totally right, hard to find a nice light multiday pack that's light and carry well, all the cold cold world packs are frameless but light.

I look in the gear guides for over 4500 cu inches and 4 pounds or under. I have heard reviews of the Kelty Cloud 4500 (weighs under two pounds!) as a very supportive and comfortable carry. They have a similar pack , can't recall if it's called the flight 4500 weighs a half a pound more and is several hundred dollers cheaper.

I haven't talked to many people who carry the Andinista, it's real light for it's size but the framesheet is minimal and it's compression system only allows for two sizes.

A basic three strap side compression system, bivy sleeve, two daisy chains and axe loops attached to a a minimal frame system thats' comfy when maxed out are things to look for.

I know they're sellouts, but I've carried TNF packs for almost twenty years, bought a spectra fabric alpine pack they made a couple of years ago, they have a great lighweight x frame stay system that works well and you can remove the stays in the field for a rucksack like carry. They've got a Prophet 65 that's light and looks real similar to my older model. The durability of spectra type fabics don't seem as good as standard cordura but it is significantly lighter.

[EV]

You may want to check the math on this, but I believe the No Zone is like 3200 cubic inches.

I know Feathered Friends sells them.

As far as McHale packs, I agree. Heavy, but carry a load well. The only thing is, it will take about 30 days for Dan to make one for you. Give him a call.

[wdietsch]

Lucky,

Why are you selling your Ice Sack? How long ago did you buy it?

Wes

[This message has been edited by westerntk@aol.com (edited 06-01-2001).]

[freeclimb9]

I've got a Cold Cold World pack (the bigger one, whatever it's called), and have used it on trips up to three days in length. It's okay. There's some stuff that's brilliant, and other stuff that's dumb (actually, my design gripes are the lack of angle on the waistband, and it's tendency to flop over my ass when partially loaded, but that's my fault for loading it weirdly). There's a guy in the town I live in that also makes packs: www.wildmanpacks.com, so that's yet another option.

BTW, my favorite pack is one I made for myself that I've been using for 12 years. Someday I'll update it, and be ready for another decade of abuse.

[wdietsch]

freeclimb9,

Do you know anyone that has one of Wildman's Talus packs? I personally consider it to be heavy but would like to heard (read) some feeback.

wes

[Pencil_Pusher]

Wow, I like Beck's thought process.

Wish I could remember what the heck my pack is called. It's basically a bag with a top pouch, weighing in under two pounds. Frameless, I don't know how big, and 58 dollars brand new. Probably should be an oversized book bag.

Anyhow, it was big enough for my half of the climbing gear, bivy, and stove (joke... Snow Peak Giga). That was a nine mile hike in with 5500 ft elevation gain (Prusik via Snow Crk).

With these frameless packs, comfort is sacrificed for an objective, the climb. You just need to punch the bulges a few times to level things out, then haul butt.

I've also got a Kelty Tornado which I think is 4000+ cubic inches weighing in at four pounds. I've used it for all my trips now to include three day trips on Helens, Shuksan, and Rainier.

Good luck.

---oh yeah, and I pro-dealed the Tornado for $52. get killer deals working for the goods stores.

[This message has been edited by Pencil Pusher (edited 06-20-2001).]

[gearup5000]

The Nozone is a great pack and I have one.

I also have a Borea (based on the Bora 40)

 

The Nozone has a the head cavity spacer in the framesheet which is great (so you can tilt back without a hitch)

and twin stays. The "floating" crampon patch is pretty good,

and the narrow width is to my liking.

 

The shoulder pads could be thicker, but it's an alpine pack,

and winter clothing under the pads is factored in the design.

 

The Borea is more comfortable because of a much more substantial backpanel. It's pretty beefy compared to the thin panel of the Nozone.

 

The Nozone doesn't carry skis well (maybe on the back panel)

but it's not designed for that.

 

I like both packs very much:

The Nozone is pared down and can be stripped to nothing.

The webbing hipbelt idea is great (sometimes I put it on the Borea)

 

The Borea is more comfy, and is great for skiing/camping because of it's many pockets to organize my gear.

 

But , if you want an all-round alpine pack, I'd highly reccomend the Nozone. Good fit, can be stripped down to make it way light, or put the stays in for heavy loads.

[Jedi]

I haven't tried many packs so I don't have much to compare to.

Tried a 15 year Lowe pack, I have my 12 year BD cragging pack, 8 or 9 year old Dana Bomb & an 8 year Astraplane (probably need to sell). None of those qualify as "Alpine" packs.

Anyway, the Andinista wears like you would think a pack would without stays. One thing that annoys me is the shoulder straps loosen (at the bottom) on a regular basis. This is a 96 model so they might have a different "adjuster" now.

I never use the lid because my helmet hits it and my neck sore by the end of the day.

No place good to stick a picket that you can get to it with the pack on.

 

If one had the money, I would think a custom pack would be the ticket. It's like having a better fitting shoe making climbing easier (sneakers compared to climbing shoes). Why would you not want a better fitting pack?

 

I think a porter should come with a 60L or larger pack, if you weigh less than 150lbs.

 

Jedi

[flatland]

At under three pounds the 3200 cu.in. Granite Gear Alpine Lite is a great alpine pack. It has multiple haul loops, shoulder trim straps that can attatch to the extended lid for the approach (don't buy a pack with out this feature), removable z-rest pad, tough and easy to use tool slots, quick drying/snow shedding material. I buy a new one each season so if you want mine it is in good shape. Retail $160 - selling for $75 + 5 for shipping.

[Bogen]

I just got a new pack from MEC. Can't say much about it, it didn't even have a description or price tag ($100 cdn) when I bought it. Gear loops on the waist band, around 40 or 50 litres, fits like a glove. Never had a pack on that fit so perfectly, it is almost immobile, even with weight. I think they are calling it the cragalot, it is not in the catalog or website yet. I tried it on, and immediately had to have it.

[slothrop]

I've got the Grivel Alpine Lite (42L or 2560 in.^3, weighs 1.3kg), which is now on sale at PMS in Seattle for $80.

 

Pros:

- light-colored interior

- durable, lightweight fabric

- gear loops on interior and waistbelt

- daisy chains

- loops/sliders on lid for lashing crampons

- semi-floating lid

- small removable foam backpad

- carries skis

- waist belt is made of zippered pockets, so you can use your socks/spare gloves as padding

- "hydration-compatible"

 

Cons:

- backpad is a pain to remove

- stretchy ice axe straps prone to releasing (could be replaced with cord)

- single strap down the middle to cinch the lid... I just don't like this design, since the lower end always flops around in the dirt when it's open

- too small for some overnights... but you can clip the Manu pack to the back for extra space

- fit is a little strange--it doesn't rest on my hips very well--but most of the time I'm not carrying enough weight to care (YMMV)

[gearup5000]

Forgot to metnion: fit is foremost.

 

Even if one pack is fancier, go with the one that fits better.

You'll appreciate it.

[johndavidjr]

I've used 1995 Lowe "Snow Peak" (discontinued) extensively for multi-day alpine climbs. 50 cl frameless. Weight is as minimal as they come. Doesn't fit my torso length. Yet at times I've considered it ideal. Purchased MEC Brio, slightly larger & significantly heavier, with removable framesheet-- carries loads better, and fits me pretty good, but probably less ideal as alpine day pack because it's too big... Currently I believe neither of these packs are ideal for multi-day alpine, thoug MEC probably better. Arc'Teryx brand looks to me like they make the best packs. Never tried'em. No such thing as perfect pack.

__

[Fromage]

Arcteryx packs are available at Feathered Friends.

 

They don't stock the Nozone, but can order it. They carry the Needle 65 and 45. They are comfy.

 

[gearup5000]

The biggest difference between the needle line and the Nozone is that the Nozone uses 7075 stays. They are stronger, more springy and flexible I find.