Christian Climbers.

[ericb]

Another speculation thread:

 

Think of it.

Some unknown newbie with one post, posts an intriguing and sensitive topic about religion, then we the rest of the forum, spews and sprays our morals around for 50 pages in 2 days…….

 

Keep it up!

 

 

 

speaking of which....where did he go?

 

 

This is my point....that newbie only posted 2 times. This whole thing was a troll to get the CC.com machine working overtime.

 

what kind of morons would fall for that?

[Seahawks]

Another speculation thread:

 

Think of it.

Some unknown newbie with one post, posts an intriguing and sensitive topic about religion, then we the rest of the forum, spews and sprays our morals around for 50 pages in 2 days…….

 

Keep it up!

 

 

 

speaking of which....where did he go?

 

 

This is my point....that newbie only posted 2 times. This whole thing was a troll to get the CC.com machine working overtime.

 

Holy crap spray might collapse under this thinking.

[olyclimber]

[tvashtarkatena]

Holy shit, the world is one great big game of Grand Theft Auto.

 

That explains a lot.

[kevbone]

Another speculation thread:

 

Think of it.

Some unknown newbie with one post, posts an intriguing and sensitive topic about religion, then we the rest of the forum, spews and sprays our morals around for 50 pages in 2 days…….

 

Keep it up!

 

 

 

speaking of which....where did he go?

 

 

This is my point....that newbie only posted 2 times. This whole thing was a troll to get the CC.com machine working overtime.

 

what kind of morons would fall for that?

 

 

You, me and all the other machines......

[gforceclimber]

After reading the mass of opinionsa and spray, I can unequivocally say thank you to everyone! Your replies have helped me to prepare an amzing message. Thanks again to all the climbers and their writing skills. I know you folks climb as good as you write. I myself am an amateur climber who thinks it is one of the greatest sports and lifestyles on earth(That I believe my God made)However, my goal is not to force my opinion or belief on anyone, and I respect all of you for your honest and vvveerrrryyy straightforward opinions! Nuttin but respec...

 

Keep climbing and the faith if you believe.

 

[ericb]

After reading the mass of opinionsa and spray, I can unequivocally say thank you to everyone! Your replies have helped me to prepare an amzing message. Thanks again to all the climbers and their writing skills. I know you folks climb as good as you write. I myself am an amateur climber who thinks it is one of the greatest sports and lifestyles on earth(That I believe my God made)However, my goal is not to force my opinion or belief on anyone, and I respect all of you for your honest and vvveerrrryyy straightforward opinions! Nuttin but respec...

 

Keep climbing and the faith if you believe.

 

Bro - if you stick around, you will get enough sermons for an entire year on this site.

[tvashtarkatena]

Thanks for helping us get over our shyness issues, Rev. Keep the faith.

[G-spotter]

here is an amazing message for you

[kevbone]

After reading the mass of opinionsa and spray, I can unequivocally say thank you to everyone! Your replies have helped me to prepare an amzing message. Thanks again to all the climbers and their writing skills. I know you folks climb as good as you write. I myself am an amateur climber who thinks it is one of the greatest sports and lifestyles on earth(That I believe my God made)However, my goal is not to force my opinion or belief on anyone, and I respect all of you for your honest and vvveerrrryyy straightforward opinions! Nuttin but respec...

 

Keep climbing and the faith if you believe.

 

 

 

nuff said.

[JayB]

 

We have individuals that have already intentionally slaughtered, or plan to intentionally slaughter as many civilians as possible. Failure to prevent the attack has already cost, or will potentially cost, several, several hundred, or several thousand lives. ..... An additional distinction - and a critical one - is that failure to take action against the terrorists may lead to a death toll well in excess of the number of innocent bystanders who are incidentally killed in the act of killing the terrorists. Failing to avert a mass slaughter that may involve hundreds of people for fear of killing a much smaller number in order to prevent the said attack involves moral considerations that are completely absent from and nothing like those involved in stoning a woman who has engaged in a consensual act of affection outside of marriage.

 

Interesting points. But the moral righteousness of bombing and deliberately causing collateral damage deaths on the premise of preventing even more future deaths relies on an assumption that the country choosing to bomb knows with certainty the long term outcomes of either choice (to bomb, or not to bomb). It may or may not be the lesser of two evils, yet it's the course always chosen with this rationale in mind. How do we know that some 12 year old Iraqi boy who otherwise would've become a doctor but whose entire family was blown up in front of him by one of our bombs accidently isn't now instead going to become the guy who drops a huge nuke on New York City in the year 2031? Well we don't, and that's an eccentric example, but the point is, these justifications for war have been recycled forever and we don't know what the wide ranging effects of war really have had- except that there's a cycle of violence within this supposed moral imperative of "no killing".

 

Using airstrikes for assassination in urban areas is certain to cause civilian casualties. War planners know and accept this; therefore those deaths are every bit as deliberate as the in the case of stoning. There is a difference in scale, of course. The stoning kills one person, the bombing many.

 

I would also argue that our nearly psychotic paranoia regarding the vastly overblown terrorist threat is similar to the paranoia of those muslim nations who feel that female infidelity will lead to an unraveling of their social fabric. In fact, I would argue that our society IS unraveling as a result of our paranoia and pre-occupation with national security at the expense of all else. Essentially, we've allowed ourselves to become a pathetic bucket of angry, frightened kittens just because a few pricks took out a couple of our buildings. Lately, however, it seems that we might have a chance to get our balls back and move on.

 

 

Using the term "I would argue.." followed by a statement of your personal convictions doesn't transmute the said convictions into an argument, much less a convincing one.

 

It bears repeating that private acts of affection and targeted attacks on terrorists are different things, and if you wish to compare the moral codes of two different groups of people in an accurate and rational fashion, you need to compare the precepts that govern their responses to the same activities. I'll help you out here. Compare the legal punishments that a woman is subject to for engaging in consensual sex outside of in marriage under Western Law to the penalties that the same actions are subject to under Sharia. Do the same for the conduct of Islamists with respect to the moral considerations that they undertake with regards to civilian casualties. Islamists not only take no effort whatsoever to minimize civilian casualties. This is because civilians are the target, and they make every effort to maximize the number of civilians that they kill, and use every means at their disposal to do so. Now compare this philosophy to the practice of using precision strikes to kill people in an effort to limit the number of civilians that the terrorists are able to murder.

 

The fact that you keep attempting to tether the practice of stoning women who commit adultery to death with targeted airstrikes against terrorists who may or may not be surrounded by civilians with nothing more substantial than a bald assertion is telling. The reason that you are unwilling to make an apples-to-apples comparison is that the act of doing so would undermine the unreflective moral relativism that you are attempting to pass off as serious moral reasoning. Either that or you would look quite foolish attempting to argue on behalf of arguments that are transparently false, and that not even you believe.

 

If a female relative of yours had an affair and she would be either subject to Sharia or Western moral/legal moray, and the nonsense that you are arguing on behalf of actually represented your sincere convictions, you would not object to someone deciding the matter with a flip of the coin. "Death by stoning or a few folks looking askance at her and maybe a divorce *shrug* - flip away."? Right.

[archenemy]

Hallucinogenics may very well enhance performance, much as caffeine does. People have used these substances for quite some time; as they have used fasting and sleep deprivation to get closer to their god(s). Sometimes near-death experiences bring people closer to God. Sometimes a dream or an insight does. Who is to know?

 

man made chemicals are artificial, much more potent, and when used recreationally - destructive. use of peyote by central americans for example is not equivalent to taking 25 hits of acid by any stretch.

I was not arguing this point. Without looking back at what preceeded my post, I think I remember you or someone else in this thread asking about religious use of drugs and/or self mutilation. I answered those questions without opinion, just with the info.

So ease up, yer sing to the choir.

[archenemy]

Holy shit, the world is one great big game of Grand Theft Auto.

 

That explains a lot.

That's Tron you godless freak. Grand Theft Auto? Baby Jesus is not gonna forget that one...

[tvashtarkatena]

You've got a boat, an astronaut, a preacher, a snafflecow, and a pitbull. All need to be ferried across the Grand Canyon. You can only take one at a time, but you can't leave the snafflecow with a Canadian, the preacher with an atheist, the pitbull with a sleeping child, or the astronaut with another astronaut. Furthermore the snafflecow always lies. You have only one diaper between you.

 

Go. You have five minutes.

Edited February 8, 2007 by tvashtarkatena

[ericb]

Holy shit, the world is one great big game of Grand Theft Auto.

 

That explains a lot.

That's Tron you godless freak. Grand Theft Auto? Baby Jesus is not gonna forget that one...

 

Off the clock AE????....5PM???? Your earlier enthusiasm couldn't have been for a govenment job

[ericb]

You've got a boat, an astronaut, a preacher, a snafflecow, and a pitbull. All need to be ferried across the Grand Canyon. You can only take one at a time, but you can't leave the snafflecow with a Canadian, the preacher with an atheist, the pitbull with a sleeping child, or the astronaut with another astronaut. Furthermore the snafflecow always lies. You have only one diaper between you.

 

Go. You have five minutes.

 

What denomination is the preacher??? I need to know if I can leave him with a sleeping child.

[archenemy]

You've got a boat, an astronaut, a preacher, a snafflecow, and a pitbull. All need to be ferried across the Grand Canyon. You can only take one at a time, but you can't leave the snafflecow with a Canadian, the preacher with an atheist, the pitbull with a sleeping child, or the astronaut with another astronaut. Furthermore the snafflecow always lies. You have only one diaper between you.

 

Go. You have five minutes.

 

What denomination is the preacher??? I need to know if I can leave him with a sleeping child.

[tvashtarkatena]

I am well aware that was Tron, youngster. But Tron isn't a video game, is it, so it wouldn't have fit the analogy, would it? Huh? Cat got yer tongue? Am I right? I am, aren't I? Huh? What was that?

 

Don't you have a snafflecow to deliver?

[archenemy]

Youngster?

That's the nicest thing anyone has said to me in a long time.

[tvashtarkatena]

You've got a boat, an astronaut, a preacher, a snafflecow, and a pitbull. All need to be ferried across the Grand Canyon. You can only take one at a time, but you can't leave the snafflecow with a Canadian, the preacher with an atheist, the pitbull with a sleeping child, or the astronaut with another astronaut. Furthermore the snafflecow always lies. You have only one diaper between you.

 

Go. You have five minutes.

 

What denomination is the preacher??? I need to know if I can leave him with a sleeping child.

 

Did I say there was a sleeping child? Stick to the facts, ADD Boy.

 

Thirty seconds.

 

 

[JayB]

 

We have individuals that have already intentionally slaughtered, or plan to intentionally slaughter as many civilians as possible. Failure to prevent the attack has already cost, or will potentially cost, several, several hundred, or several thousand lives. ..... An additional distinction - and a critical one - is that failure to take action against the terrorists may lead to a death toll well in excess of the number of innocent bystanders who are incidentally killed in the act of killing the terrorists. Failing to avert a mass slaughter that may involve hundreds of people for fear of killing a much smaller number in order to prevent the said attack involves moral considerations that are completely absent from and nothing like those involved in stoning a woman who has engaged in a consensual act of affection outside of marriage.

 

Interesting points. But the moral righteousness of bombing and deliberately causing collateral damage deaths on the premise of preventing even more future deaths relies on an assumption that the country choosing to bomb knows with certainty the long term outcomes of either choice (to bomb, or not to bomb). It may or may not be the lesser of two evils, yet it's the course always chosen with this rationale in mind. How do we know that some 12 year old Iraqi boy who otherwise would've become a doctor but whose entire family was blown up in front of him by one of our bombs accidently isn't now instead going to become the guy who drops a huge nuke on New York City in the year 2031? Well we don't, and that's an eccentric example, but the point is, these justifications for war have been recycled forever and we don't know what the wide ranging effects of war really have had- except that there's a cycle of violence within this supposed moral imperative of "no killing".

 

I would have to disagree, simply because one can't base serious moral reasoning on things that are fundamentally unknowable, and one can never know with certainty the full set of long term consequences that result from any choice. That's just an impossible precondition to satisfy.

 

I think a more defensible and realistic approach involves attempting to ascertain the probability of the set of forseeable outcomes resulting from a given action, weighing these against the probability of various outcomes if you do nothing.

 

 

[ericb]

I am well aware that was Tron, youngster. But Tron isn't a video game, is it, so it wouldn't have fit the analogy, would it? Huh? Cat got yer tongue? Am I right? I am, aren't I? Huh? What was that?

 

Don't you have a snafflecow to deliver?

 

You've dated yourself TTK. Tron is too a video game....circa omega race et al

[tvashtarkatena]

That's Tron you godless freak. Grand Theft Auto? Baby Jesus is not gonna forget that one...

 

I've got Baby Jebus swaddled in the back seat of the trick '68 Impala I jacked from an 80 year old lady just before running her over.

[tvashtarkatena]

I am well aware that was Tron, youngster. But Tron isn't a video game, is it, so it wouldn't have fit the analogy, would it? Huh? Cat got yer tongue? Am I right? I am, aren't I? Huh? What was that?

 

Don't you have a snafflecow to deliver?

 

You've dated yourself TTK. Tron is too a video game....circa omega race et al

 

Oh, right. Next you're going to try to tell me that Tron was a movie.

 

Video games. Ugh. I never played them.

[ericb]

I am well aware that was Tron, youngster. But Tron isn't a video game, is it, so it wouldn't have fit the analogy, would it? Huh? Cat got yer tongue? Am I right? I am, aren't I? Huh? What was that?

 

Don't you have a snafflecow to deliver?

 

You've dated yourself TTK. Tron is too a video game....circa omega race et al

 

Oh, right. Next you're going to try to tell me that Tron was a movie.

 

Video games. Ugh. I never played them.

 

I did...in between couple-skates when I was trying to get my mack on.