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Jens

Leashes= cheating (many say)

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I would agree that the climbing world has certainly seen it's fair share of fads, but I can assure you that the world stage will not return to leashes.

You seem like a smart guy, but honestly, the very premise of this thread (look what the Euros are doing...maybe we should catch up) just makes me wanna puke. Why do you care? Emulating the Euros got us into the ethical mess that we're in today. Why do you need those A-holes to be your role models? THERE IS NO WILDERNESS IN THE ALPS! "Dude, drill those bolts, chip those holds, put on your crazy 1-piece lyrcra body suit and cut your leashes....CAUSE THAT'S THE WAY THEYS DOES IT ON THE CONTINENT!"

 

Think for yourself.

 

 

Just a gentle reminder to see above on who should respectfully sit this thread out.

Are you talking to me?

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So pope, all ice climbs are just A0 since you are inherently french freeing?

 

It's just ice climbing. My point isn't really that ice climbing is aid. My point is that ice climbing is completely dependent on equipment. Leashes, drooped picks, bent shafts, mono points, rigid crampons....these all fall into the same category. They are devices that make ice climbing easier. I think it's a joke to pick on one of these devices and claim that, by eliminating it, you're suddenly "eliminating aid". But if that makes the young tigers feel special about their generation's contribution to mountaineering.....whatever.

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So pope, all ice climbs are just A0 since you are inherently french freeing?

 

It's just ice climbing. My point isn't really that ice climbing is aid. My point is that ice climbing is completely dependent on equipment. Leashes, drooped picks, bent shafts, mono points, rigid crampons....these all fall into the same category. They are devices that make ice climbing easier. I think it's a joke to pick on one of these devices and claim that, by eliminating it, you're suddenly "eliminating aid". But if that makes the young tigers feel special about their generation's contribution to mountaineering.....whatever.

 

No disagreement here. However, artificially making climbs more challenging (i.e. no spurs, leashless maybe) is nothing new to the climbing ethic. Otherwise, why even try and free hard pitches (rock) when you could just take and rest and pull gear and climb faster and safer.

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It's just ice climbing. My point isn't really that ice climbing is aid. My point is that ice climbing is completely dependent on equipment. Leashes, drooped picks, bent shafts, mono points, rigid crampons....these all fall into the same category. They are devices that make ice climbing easier. I think it's a joke to pick on one of these devices and claim that, by eliminating it, you're suddenly "eliminating aid". But if that makes the young tigers feel special about their generation's contribution to mountaineering.....whatever.

 

Well-said. Seems a bit silly to be getting so self-righteous about a particular style of climbing. Like trad over sport, or alpine over bouldering or some silliness such as that( :grin:).

 

But I hear BillA is off the hook with his pull-ups, after learning from the mythical Mr. Twight. How are they coming along, Bill?

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Okay "Raindawg", I'm the anonymous guy? My name is Bill Amos, I live right off of woodward and se 34th in Portland. I'll PM you my phone number if you want.

 

BillA:

Well howdy-hey, Bill!

Thanks, but no thanks...you can keep that li'l phone number and save that scrap o' paper for the gals at Hooters.

Dude...you were the guy makin' the assumptions about folk's experience because they disagreed with you. Whatever, gurlfren.

 

I'm still really not sure how bat hooks and ice climbing are similar, as one hole permanently alters the rock forever and the other creates a hole in frozen water that's going to fall down in a few months anyway. The mind boggles.

 

I think it's been explained well by now. It's not an environmental issue we're discussing here, it's whether or not you're suspending yourself from something artificial.

If you're mind is "boggling", I can't help you, although maybe you should try some of this:

 

alb9.jpg

 

Maybe calling you retarded was a bit harsh, but then again maybe not considering your response.

 

You got answered in kind.

 

 

And then there's this Tobin guy:

Pope-

 

You are a clown azz dude. Wise up.

I guess the list of people you are too high and noble to belay might include the likes of Steve House, Vince Anderson, Marko Prezl (sp), the late JC Lafaille and Hari Berger, Scott Decapio, Will Gadd, Raph...and on and on...Your probably so hard that you like those cold fingers though.

Climb with leashes, climb while I was breast feeding, i dont particularly care what your "street cred" is. To make blanket statements like that make you sound like your str8 out of Iowa with your alpinism (no offense to Iowa an alpine bastion)...

 

Yo! hip-hop homey street-cred beta solicitin', leash-jivin', spellin' the word "straight" with "str8", and "ass" like "azz", ice-hone-master-thinks-he-is, name-droppin' alpine G! Yo!

 

wigger.jpg

 

Be talkin' like that make you sound like you str8 out of Eatonville, Washington!

 

 

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Still sore over a disagreement about pullups sexual chocolate? What's wrong with you? And Raindawg, way to remain the anonymous internet guy. I'm out. :rolleyes:

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Bicker as you will, leashes are new, leashless is the original mode of ice climbing.

 

Aid, schmaid who cares.

 

The Euros might smoke a lot of fags, and pizz next to their huts, but their technical abililies are rarely in question. To ignore innovation, or "retro-vation??" is to stick your head in sand, and hold on to the American standard while the rest of teh world is metric.

 

I think I stole the term "blanket statements" from an old LL Cool J song...I'll have to check.

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I think no matter how you put it, both rock climbing and ice climbing have evolve since the times when Pope and Raindawg were first climbing. Yes, you must give them credit for leading ice on teradactyl's and foot fangs, but yes, things have evolve since those times. Comparing then to now, the equipment has obviously made what was the cutting edge back then, nearly moderate classics now. Look at such climbs as Bridalveil Falls done by Jeff Lowe and Mike Weiss back in 1974.

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Clothes are aid.

No pics, please!

But seriously, I thought aid was when you ceased to be climbing the actual rock/ice and started climbing ladders off of gear? What does the word aid mean anymore? Anything more than what [one person] considers purely ethical?

 

Seems to me like the major "aid" is going on with the pick & points themselves, and anything that helps you hold on (shoelaces?) is secondary.

Does anyone climb ice by chopping hand and foot holds anymore? They're the real heroes here folks.

 

Long live the English measurements!

Edited by ClimbingPanther

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aid or not, leashless is more fun.

 

I admit to having almost dropped a tool though...a missed swing can cause a deflection and significant vibration in the shaft of the tool, and if your pumped enough it could mean bye-bye.

 

I'm tempted to climb with a third tool, but after seeing a freind almost impail himself with his, this scares me almost just as much...

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I like leashes, because shit happens and I don't want to be a liability to my partner and create an epic. They work well for me and the euro's can piss off

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leashless is more fun

 

You think you're so subtle. Why don't you just come out and say "leashless is the best climbing because..."

 

whatever, I just think it is more fun, I really don't give a shit when it comes to the word "better" in any contex of climbing style.

 

except for maybe bolting practices.

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Here's a real "leashless" tool for you :rolleyes:: the only things it's lacking is a place to plug in an ipod along with an expresso spout in the handle.

 

simond-coyote.jpg

 

You want to go leashless?

Grab one of these bad-boys, give the shaft a little grippage with some X-country ski wax, and start wacking:

17.jpg

 

 

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