60m or 70m for doubles?

[dbb]

What do y'all think about 60 meters or 70 meters for double ropes? (like 8mm)

 

most of my ropes are 60s, with maybe one light weight 50. I don't have any 70s yet. will probably use these for ice and long rock climbs/alpine rock. I don't have any good 1/2 ropes left to pair with my single lines (I just CAN NOT use that rope anymore. no. put it down!)

[Lambone]

Hi Dave,

 

Tough call. I tink for most cases 60m is enough. But, I like long ropes.

 

I recently bought a pair of 70m Beal ropes from Black Diamonds specials. They are great, but it is noticably alot more rope to deal with.

 

Helps me link pitches on long rock climbs and run out long ice pitches...

 

extra weight is the obvious drawback.

[chris]

I agree with Lambone. I recently bought a 70m Joker - its great for linking pitches, really stretching it out, and the light weight made a 70m feel like I was carrying a 60m.

If I were about to buy a pair of twins or half ropes, I'd go with 70m.

NOTE: There are a lot of multipitch sport routes around here that a 70m rocks on, allowing you to link together the pitches on the ascent and then comfortably rap down the route for the descent. Condorphamine Adiction is the first that comes to mind. Inspiration and Prime Rib on the Goat Wall are two more.

[Blake]

seems like lots of the cascade alpien routes are roo wandery to permit ubber-long pitches without incredible rope drag. Guess it depends on what kind of route you are on though.

[genepires]

there are some pitches on polar circus that 70 m would be nice.

 

seems like alpine ice with lots of belayed pitches is the place where 70 m shine. North face of robson, n face athabasca, ect, but they will be gone in a decade so why bother?

[montypiton]

depends on style: I've found communication difficult on ultralong pitches in alpine conditions. If the climbing requires protecting, long ropes means more gear to adequately protect, so more weight, both in ropes, and in hardwear. on easier ground, I often find myself short-rope-simulclimbing, and the ultralong ropes just get in the way. lately, I've favored doubling a single 60m skinny rope and doing 30m pitches. haven't found it to be a problem. probably a matter of personal taste/style.

[colt45]

I don't ice climb (yet), but for rock/alpine climbing every time I have used a partner's 70m rope I have found it annoying. There is a lot of extra rope to coil and the extra length is rarely useful.

 

In situations where a 70m would allow a two-rope descent to be done with one rope it would definitely be nice, but such route are somewhat unusual (and with double ropes, rappelling isn't going to be a problem anyway). And for cragging, a 70m allows for lowering off long pitches and would be an asset, but you don't seem to be talking about x32/Index style cragging...

[marcus]

With the added rope managment involved in half/twin ropes(stacking, flaking, coiling, etc,) I find 60m to be a little easier to deal with. Keeping 140m of cord in good trim can require a lot of time and attention - possibly more time than I'd save.

 

However, I still often use a 70m single on many alpine ice/mixed gigs, when there might be an opportunity to link shorter legs in several places. Then I just bring a thin cord in the pack for rapping.

 

Gawd, you can tell the weather must be awesome and I must be effin' BORED...shop talk is fun!!!

[Kraken]

i just picked up a pair of the 70 Sterling Evolution 8.4 duetto drys yesturday and spent a long time debating this myself. The extra weight in the alpine setting does add up, and I pondered how often i would climb a bunch of 70m pitches in the chugach. I ended up going with the 70s simply because it offers more options. I figured that if after using them for a while and I end up hating that extra 10m, I could always trim them down to 60m.

It also eliminates the need for double rappels on many of the ice/rock lines around here that are normally rope stretchers.

[dbb]

what kind of cord do you use marcus? just like 6-7mm perlon or something fancier?

[jhamaker]

Funny, Clintoris. When I bought my set of 60M Beal Icelines, I figgured I would keep them in the front country untill the ends got worn, then chop em down to 45 or 50M apeace. The vast majority of alpine rts here in WA were put up w/ what, 40M ropes?

 

I'm a weight nazi, so I go w/ the lightest usable system. Usualy that is a light weight single, though I also get a lot of use out of a 30M half and, lots of use out of one 60M half (folded for those steep pitches between scrambling and running belays).

 

For the seriously weight concious where long rappels are desired, there is the (5mm) pull cord option.

[marcus]

what kind of cord do you use marcus? just like 6-7mm perlon or something fancier?

 

I just use a 6mm static. Its kinda squirrely - use a stuff sack rather than coiling/flaking - but works fine. Always rig the rap to pull the smaller cord. Makes a decent tag line as well...

[colt45]

Always rig the rap to pull the smaller cord.

With my current rap rope (8mm static) I always rig the "real" rope as the pull cord so I can then lead back up if the ropes get stuck (and in fact I have needed to do this on multiple occasions). I have been thinking of upgrading to 6mm static, which would obviously be more confidence inspiring used as the pull cord (because the knot would jam to keep the weight on the "real" rope, and the skinny cord wouldn't be dragged through the anchor and abraded). But have you had any problems with the "real" rope then getting stuck during the pull and having no way to free it?

[chris]

I found 6mm to small to handle, and have compromised with 7mm static line instead. I rig it like you've described, with the knot on the "skinny" side of the rap ring. So far, I haven't had any problems.

[dbconlin]

I have been thinking of upgrading to 6mm static, which would obviously be more confidence inspiring used as the pull cord (because the knot would jam to keep the weight on the "real" rope, and the skinny cord wouldn't be dragged through the anchor and abraded).

 

The 6 mm should take more than body weight though, right? If not you wouldn't use it at all. Also, it seems that it is better 'abrading' your skinny static line which is cheaper and doesn't get subjected to lead falls. I think it makes more sense to pull the lead line for the following reasons: you can lead on it if the cord gets stuck; if you have to abandon a stuck cord, you are not abandoning your lead line; the lead line would get less wear/tear; and there may be less friction/drag on a skinnier cord (?). Does anyone have any good arguments to the contrary?

 

I think Clintoris has a good point that if you are torn between 60 or 70 m, you can always cut a 70 m down if you decide you are unsatisfied with its length. The opposite, of course, isn't true. That said, I think I would prefer a 60 m line.

[dbb]

thanks for all the excellent advice guys

[OlympicMtnBoy]

Pulling the skinny cord first is a pain, but if you pull the fat cord first you are more likely to end up with a stuck skinny cord anyways. The skinny cord is much lighter and much more likely to get blown off route. Also I find they twist and kink much more easily making little squirril knots that get jammed in cracks and flakes. I've always pulled the skinny cord first the few times I've gone this route (with a 5.5 mm spectra cord that was super kinky). But there's obviously no consensus on it. :-)

[ScaredSilly]

I prefer a 100m as a half/twin. I got an 8.3mm from PMI that is rated as both a half and twin rope. When I want to run it out I can otherwise double it up on the harder stuff.