Bitten at Tieton

[archenemy]

If I were you, that would not be the limb I'd be most concerned about.

 

When do the snakes go back into their "torpor".

What can the hospital do for you if they don't have anti-venom?

Do some people have an allergic reaction to snake bites (if they've been exposed to venom in the past) that might kill them like a bee sting would?

[Kat_Roslyn]

 

Are you sure it wasn't a hodag or a wolperdinger that stung you? Although in that case you might feel the venom running down your leg rather than up your leg.

 

I am fairly certain, thought it may have been a troglodite though. But through the process of elimination I located the sting and identified it. Definitely the venom travelled up the veins. I don't beleive trolodites or hodags are oceanic dwellers.

[Kat_Roslyn]

 

When do the snakes go back into their "torpor".

What can the hospital do for you if they don't have anti-venom?

Do some people have an allergic reaction to snake bites (if they've been exposed to venom in the past) that might kill them like a bee sting would?

 

Seasonally, the snakes go back when it get's colder, being an ectotherm they get most of their energy from heat, with no heat, they are not active to hunt and avoid predators. When catching rattlesnakes on a warm day they are very fiesty! Day to day, it really depends on the temp because they depend on heat to regulate body temp, so, naturally, in the more southern regions, rattlers tend to be more nocturnal.

 

I don't know what hospitals have.

 

What I know about past studies on the incidences of snake bites are that there was one from like 1950-59, in the PNW there was about 50 bites, and 5? were serious. At the same time, 10 people died from bee stings. I don't know about allergies.

[icegirl]

I seem to remember this description in some climbing guide book about mazama:

 

watch out for the writhing hordes of snakes...

[sexual_chocolate]

I have been helping with catching and collecting data from rattlesnakes this spring around washington. There is one den in Vantage that we caught 17! & a whole lot more we didn't catch! I will try to get the photos of the buckets of snakes.

 

It would be a shame if someone hurt these great animals, get to know them instead, they are so beautiful and we can learn so much about how well they've adapted to their environment. I really hope no one here is as ignorant to have tried to kill them.

How often do you really hear about someone getting bit anyway? I've seen some not-so-suprising statistics about the incidence of snake bites and alcohol usage.

If you get a snake bite, keep it immobilized and go to the hospital. Many bites don't release venom, but the shot will cost a hefty $2500.

Max- The only Rattlesnake that lives around here in the Pacific Northwest is a "Northern Pacific Rattlesnake"- Crotalus viridus oreganus, The Diamondback- Crotalus atrox is southern, like Texas and Chihauhaun/Mojave desert.

 

Cool stuff! I love snakes, and held a rattler in eastern washington once. It was pretty docile, but i made sure i had it securely by the neck regardless of its apparent docility, but it seemed as though such a precaution was unnecessary!

 

have you ever "made friends" with a snake, as in you felt comfortable enough with it to let your guard down?

 

 

related note: i know someone who was bitten in the finger while bouldering in tonasket, and he has a pretty ugly scar and permanent nerve damage in the area. i think as some have said, i'd much rather have the venom dissipate from the site of the injection with the trust that my body will handle the venom, rather than restrict flow and have serious tissue damage.

[G-spotter]

S_c, you've befriended many trouser snakes, haven't you?

[kix]

 

 

related note: i know someone who was bitten in the finger while bouldering in tonasket,

 

son of phil, brother of dan?

[olyclimber]

Who here has an really strong aversion to snakes. not that you dislike them as animals, but that they have the effect...say, like spiders have on some people.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

i do. just the one-eyed variety.

[olyclimber]

must make it hard to use the trough at the pub

[andyf]

the locals... one guy especially that free soloed the easy routes... said it was tradition there to stone them, he even ranked on me for not stoneing a big one on the trail that I almost stepped on, he said it was th MAMA

 

This isn't part of any "tradition" I'm aware of!

 

If it's not enough that rattlesnakes are cool, ecologically useful creatures, people should be aware that the lower Tieton crags (as well as the crags at Vantage and the west side of Banks Lake, among others) are all on state wildlife refuge land. Climbers making a habit of killing snakes isn't exactly in the long-term interest of maintaining access to these areas.

 

Someone asked whether bee sting allergies translate to increased risk if bitten by a rattlesnake. I asked this question of a doctor once (I'm allergic to bee stings) and was told no, because the neurotoxin of the rattlesnake is a completely different poison.

[JonnySnakeSlayer]

Me and a buddy had a close encounter last spring on the way to the columns. No one was bit, and no snakes were slain, but I did get a nick name out of the encounter.

[billcoe]

 

 

It would be a shame if someone hurt these great animals, get to know them instead, they are so beautiful and we can learn so much about how well they've adapted to their environment. I really hope no one here is as ignorant to have tried to kill them.

 

Bullshit.

 

I love snakes.

 

Except rattlesnakes. If we could get rid of every damn one and replace them with Bull snakes and King Snakes I'd be happy.

 

Personal opinion, don't care if you like it or don't. Don't feel the need to be "politically correct" and pleasant to avoid the truth.

[olyclimber]

BILL! Do you hate nature???

[billcoe]

No sir. I suspect that there are people who find Hobo spiders interesting as well. OK, I find it fascinating that you can scare them and they will run towards you. As one of the worlds fastest spiders, and able to run up your leg under you pants while frightened and then bite you, it's increadibly interesting. They really are fascinating.

 

However, there are craploads of spiders out there which don't cause the problems these lil fellas do.

 

So kill all of them as well. Every damn one. If even 1 parent should lose a child who dies of a Hobo bite it's one too many. BTW, sprays are not suppose to be effective (in fact there may be evidence it is counterproductive allowing them to flourish) for these damn things as it kills non-lethal competitors as well.

 

Be that as it may, I see one, bye-bye. That's my 2 issues. Love everything else.

 

Kill all the damn Hobo spiders

 

 

 

 

I've had this conversation many times with my older brother, who, being much more of a naturalist, believes that all creatures should be allowed to floursh in peace and harmony, including mosquitos. (Food source for Birds and bats).

[Norman_Clyde]

Here's the lowdown regarding treatment:

 

Ice worsens the injury and is to be avoided. Likewise with Cut and Suck.

 

All snake bite victims are advised to proceed immediately to the hospital for evaluation.

 

If the hospital is far away and a severe systemic envenomation is feared, for a bite on an extremity a constriction band to restrict lymphatic flow may slow systemic absorption of the venom. In doing so, it may increase local venom exposure and worsen local tissue injury. If I were deciding what to do, I'd only put the band on if someone developed systemic symptoms rapidly.

 

Antivenin is indicated for progressive symptoms, which means either ongoing worsening of local effects, or anything but very minor systemic effects. Local effects are pain, swelling, bruising, blood blisters (from disruption of blood coagulation) at the site. Systemic effects include nausea, vomiting, tingling around the mouth, weakness/dizziness, vomiting blood, altered mental status, etc.

 

Once the decision to use antivenin is made, the standard dose is 10 vials. (I have no idea how much this costs.) More severe cases require more antivenin. It's made from horse serum and can cause early or late allergic reactions.

 

For any of you that might want to wait a while before going to the hospital, "It cannot be overemphasized that one can easily be deceived by a bite that initially appears innocuous."

 

Source for the above: Emergency Medicine by Tintinalli et al, 4th edition.

[olyclimber]

Thanks Norman.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

Kill all black flies too.

[DirtyHarry]

he even ranked on me for not stoneing a big one on the trail that I almost stepped on,

 

Did you say "rank?" That's so middle school. Nice.

[sexual_chocolate]

 

 

related note: i know someone who was bitten in the finger while bouldering in tonasket,

 

son of phil, brother of dan?

 

?

 

Larry.

[Coldfinger]

That reminds me of another scare. I'd just finished the FA of a route at the Cave (in April) and was getting lowered off. I got buzzed as soon as I hit the ground by a snake a couple of feet away. The guy lowering me heard it and said something like "Whoa," but for what felt like an eternity, he didn't compute that he still had me tethered to the rope. I was like a mad dog on a chain trying to get away. Finally, between me and another person, we got his attention and he played out some slack.

 

That's not what happened AndyF! Well, not exactly anyway.

 

I was lowering you off and that snake starting buzzing well before you hit the ground. It was a damn big one too--I could see part of it in the crevice under the climb and it looked about three inches thick. That was probably the biggest one I'd ever seen. I could also see it was trying to get back underground. You were pretty eager to resume your descent but I wasn't about to lower you any further until we had some kind of plan.

 

I recall that you jumped out, I paid out a ton of slack and you landed on your feet a good ways out from our new friend. That was a pretty impressive manuever!

 

You were flapping pretty hard at that point (which was quite amusing given your normally chill demeanor).

 

At the time, it was my opinion that you were not in range and between the relief and the uncontrollable desire to laugh (and perhaps to have a little fun), I didn't give you any more slack for a bit. I remember the other guy and I (and you) thought that whole thing was pretty damn amusing.

 

As for the Tieton, I can't tell you the number of times those goddam locusts have given me a good start.

 

I've had more problems with the snakes while bouldering--including the time my dog saved my ass. I had started up something that I was pretty sure to come flying off of (at the Cozy's wall) and by pure luck noticed he was giving a spot ten feet away from my landing a good hard look. Then he looks at me with this 'what the hell are you doing?' look. So I stepped off to see WTF was going on and here comes this rattler along the base of Cozy's wall through the grass and its in the middle of molting.

 

As some of you may know, they really can't see very well (or rattle) when they shed, and thus are quite testy and very dangerous (notwithstanding their normally passive nature). So I'm pretty glad I didn't end up landing right on that snake.

 

Ever since then I always give a good look down at either of those walls if I know I'm coming off.

 

There was also the time I startled one on that narrow, eroded section of trail on the mud cliff to the left of the moon rocks bridge. I used to carry a five foot wood pole for brushing and was damn glad I had it in hand.

 

As for the Cave, I've been there in April on cold day with bunches (dozens) of them just lying about everywhere, but they were in such a torpor that they pretty much ignore everything. My partner kept picking them up and they really didn't seem to care. I remember sitting next to one coiled up and it watched me and I watched it and that was it.

 

One nice thing about the rattlers is that you don't have the 20 dogs (or their owners) running loose around the base like at so many other crags.

 

I do know of a few dogs that have had to pay the price for their owner's ignorance, so I'd just warn people to be a little smarter (and don't tie Fido to a tree or he may share AndyF's fate!).

 

Personally, I'd rather wage war on all those goddam ticks. I've been sitting on a rock slab to the right of the Cave and seen a dozen ofthe little bastards crawling at me (the saddle to the right of the Cave is a bedding ground for Elk and Deer and is INFESTED). That would be another reason to leave Fido (especially if you are going to be sharing a tent) or better yet not go at all!

[G-spotter]

What happens if you put a rattlesnake inside a gunnysack with a hobo spider?

[billcoe]

What happens if you put a rattlesnake inside a gunnysack with a hobo spider?

 

Not much after you dump it in a river with a few rocks inside and walk away.

 

Besides:

 

Didn't you guys already have those discusions about a Bear and a Bull, and a Shark and a ...something else I forget.

[carolyn]

Who here has an really strong aversion to snakes. not that you dislike them as animals, but that they have the effect...say, like spiders have on some people.

 

I think spiders are some of the kewlest creatures on earth!

Snakes - freak the SHIT outta me!

even the gardner snakes creep me out.

Im getting the shivers just thinking about it.

Yuck!

[sobo]

Several years ago, I think I may have come across your friend, andy. He/she was coiled up in the mottled shade at the base of the Nick Cave Variations. A h-u-g-e sucker of a rattler! I was already on route by the time he started buzzing at my belayer, and she was understandably "annoyed" at the presence of such a beast...

 

Nevertheless, she was true to climbing tradition and stuck it out until I completed the route, but I fear she paid a lot more attention to that snake than to me...