spray police

[pope]

I'm a neophyte on these boards, so maybe I shouldn't comment, but I will. So, here's my worthless-but-nevertheless-got-to-be-heard opinion: IT'S REALLY STUPID HOW A TOPIC GETS DEMOTED TO "SPRAY" STATUS AND, CONSEQUENTLY, HIDDEN FROM THOSE VIEWING THE TOP 25. I'LL START FOLLOWING HILARIOUS AND IMAGINATIVE BANTER AND....HEY, WHERE THE HELL DID IT GO? AFTER THE DEMOTION, IT SEEMS THE TOPIC DIES, WHICH IS UNFORTUNATE.

Let's face it, when you ensconce, behind the veil of "spray demotion", the clever, smart-alecky commentaries of contributors such as Donna Top-Step, your bulletin board becomes a collection of sapless, uninspiring, poorly formulated claptrap, written by imbeciles who are victims of the illusion that mountain climbing is serious and important.

[highclimb]

dude some times spary can get really annoying. i am not saying its not funny but take the thread about the stuart/dragontail conditions. it has been all spary only one guy is giving good information. now i know you might not care about the info but for people attempting a route on the mountain this weekend it has become very helpful and i would like to thank that person.

Aidan

[pope]

Information is great, and I don't think somebody should spray all over a serious info exchange. But a topic like "BIG LOU JR" was pretty hilarious, and I don't think anybody mistook it for information. I get the impression "BIG LOU JR" was hidden from easy view because of rowdy banter!

[highclimb]

i didnt even want to know what that was about...ahahahah, didnt even open the thread to look

point taken

Aidan

[Chongo]

Someone doesn't like spray here? Speak up and identify yourself!

[Guest]

Hey Mr. Kassidy! Would you like us to resurrect Big Lou, Jr. again? That all started with "Pope"'s wise-ass remarks. Anyway, I don't think the smart-alecky comments are out of order. No reason they can't get thrown into the mix. People will get their information if someone wants to share some. But in the meantime, if the opportunity presents itself, why not share a little humor and happiness? After all, having a good time is at least 50% of what climbing is all about for me, if not life in general. (The other 50% includes the overlapping notions of physical, mental and spiritual exercise and inspiration!)

So what if when I first met "Pope" at the City of Rocks several years ago, he approached me, grabbed my butt and asked, "Is this seat taken?" followed by "I've gotta thirst, baby. Would you be my Gatorade?" Great stuff, eh? Followed by a couple of days of bouldering, some road trips and that stupid Cirque "expedition".

Climbing is more than just route beta, etc. (which is good stuff for sure), but it's also about people for better or for worse.

Nuff said. If this is "spray", let it fly!

- Having a good time climbing Donna.

And y'all have a lovely evening!

[CascadeClimber]

My two cents:

Yes, an occassional joke is funny. But lately almost every thread has deteriorated into inane banter, frequently at the expense of the original poster.

It is nice to have some spice in my food, but when it is over-seasoned everyone just ends up sick.

And if you don't like the thread getting moved to Spray, then don't spray in the thread. Believe it or not, there are some people who do frequent this site for beta and help, not humor of marginal quality. I'm one of them.

This site used to get some great posts from local legends. But in the last four months they have disappeared. Too bad for us that we lose the chance to interact with the Nelsons and Skoogs of the world.

-CC

[Cpt.Caveman]

Ok where is Alexi Uli?! I know he has something to say. I only have something to spray

[This message has been edited by Cpt.Caveman (edited 05-23-2001).]

[erik]

really people! how weak can you be as a human being if you are letting practically anonomyuos postings wreck or even affect your day. there are so many others things to get bent out of shape over. one happens to be democrats, but that is another worthless topic in general.

about once a month some yahoo gets on his/hers moral high horse to tell everyone that we need to stop being obnoxious! well girlz this is america and we are all obnoxious. i really doubt anyone that posts spray or puts up a jab towards someone else really gives a shit what anyone thinks or cares. valuable information is traded here, some might think like a rare comoditiy. i bet you all watch tv, you wanna talk about worthless shit. it only takes 3% of your brain to watch tv, and about 16% to make some worthless smart ass comment, so unless you don't watch tv you are just as bad as the next dude, who wants everyone to be friends and only converese in harmonious glee? that would be called assimalation! so watch your tv and watch boscowitz beat some filthy crook up or those 70's kids smoke their doobie, and quite fucking whining.

p.s. if you feel like whining after reading this i think costco has tampons on sale.

 

[scott]

.

[This message has been edited by scott (edited 05-23-2001).]

[pope]

Loren,

I checked out your web-site, and from the looks of things, you're definitely in need of all the advice, help, beta and info you can find. I see where you're coming from, bro.

I also see that you're into this NW legends thing...to the extent that you think you're partnered up with one! Now that's humor.

p.s. Perhaps the quality of this site's information is even lousier than the humor?

[This message has been edited by jkassidy (edited 05-23-2001).]

[Andy_Bourne]

My vote is to keep the elementry school blather to either the regular board or on the spray board.

I think that some funny/condesceding comments and ethical pissing contests are OK, just KEEP THEM OUT OF THE F**KING ROUTE REPORT PAGES. That is the only area of real interest on this used-to-be good site. Please, jon and Tim, help us out here.

[jon]

I considered writing the typical conservative reply that pleases everyone, but maybe I’ll just tell everyone how I really feel, otherwise I’m just lying. I’m pretty pissed off how people have taken it upon themselves to try to ruin this site and what potential lies within it. I don’t know what these peoples motivation for doing this is but I’d wish you’d find something more constructive to do with your day, or find a different bulletin board. I work during the day, spend very little time on the website, so I don’t have time to babysit the boards and ponder whether something should be put in the Spray category or not. Even if I did have that luxery moderating the site is something I don’t enjoy, and honestly would think it shouldn’t have to be done. What really sucks is when I get emails like this during my work day,

Jon,

Thanks for trying, but a few idiots have ruined the site. It could have been pretty cool, but what can you do?

All normal people I know who used to visit the site don't visit

anymore. Maybe a little closer refereeing might help for future people

visiting. I won't be coming here anymore.

Who cares what this guy says you say? I care, because I’ve gotten lots of email like this, from people I know. I’m not upset these people tell me this; I’m upset because it is true.

The site was started by two normal guys with a cool idea of creating a resource for others to use to share beta on routes, gear and such. At times it’s hard to believe how many people use this thing now, how many people are registered, how there can be 25 people on the website at one point, it’s almost overwhelming. I hope people have been able to get something useful out of this thing, I know some have, including myself. It was done on beat up old computers with 15 inch monitors and hacked software, done on our spare time. We don’t do this type of stuff professionally, just taught ourselves how to do it. Now we are paying $45 a month for hosting to develop a route reporting database, the original concept of the site. What do we get out of this? At first doing the site was a lot of fun, and still is, but recently its created lots of grief.

All I ask is people treat others with a little more respect, treat the site with a little more respect, don’t post tons of useless cra[, take what people say with a grain of salt, don’t take things so personal, keep it real for crying out loud. It seams people’s questions, which may be dumb to you but not to others, get drowned by a bunch of smart-aleck comments. Just cut it out. We created the spray category for you, at your request, keep it there; it’s permeated the rest of the message board. Oh, and one last thing, don’t threaten people here, it will no longer be tolerated, GOT IT!

Back to work.

Jon

[This message has been edited by jon (edited 05-23-2001).]

[Cpt.Caveman]

It feels like this is directed at me.

[AlpineK]

I've noticed a number of subjects posted in the Alpine Lakes section that either belong in spray or in some other section. The whole Big Lou thing for example should have been in spray from the get go. But I don't want to pick on sprayers (myself) alone; also posted in the Alpine Lakes section are a thread about University Wall and a domain name for sale. Isn't that just as bad? Part of the problem is that sprayers want to be able to click on the top 25 and get the spray too.

I would like to point out that of the people I know who post here, myself included, both spray and post helpfull stuff too. In fact I suspect that many of the sprayers have quite a bit of climbing knoledge and are happy to share it. While we may not have top names posting that doesn't mean there is a lack of people who don't know what they are talking about.

I would like to say that I certainly do not take any of the BS posted here seriously, and I hope others know that sometimes things are said to be helpfull and sometimes things are said for their hummor content.

I have two conclusions from all this: put spray back in the last 25 posts, and America would be a much better place if Puritans had never come here.

[mikeadam]

As far as I'm aware several of the "sprayers" ARE the more active climbers on the board. Probably between the lot of them they could supply all the beta you need on any given area. Several of the sprayers are guides or climb fulltime for no other reason other than to climb.

Notwithstanding the large group of climbers who never post on this board and couldn't care less. About half a dozen of the *best* climbers in the state have looked at me stupidly when I mention this site.

This topic has been debated for quite some time now and had a traceable genesis. If you look back to some of the original and most humorous topics on this site most would have fallen into the spray category.

One of the original and best spray topics was started by one of the webmasters entitled "Climb K2 at work". Spray has been one of the best things about this site and until certain self righteous individuals started loudly whining about it we all had a pretty good laugh and no ones feelings were getting hurt.

Then came the 2nd wave of anonymous detractors such as Baltimore Hemmorhoid, ZDFG, and finally some people who posted here quite frequently-loudly-and most self righteously I might add.

There are reasons why some of the older, more well known Cascade climbers don't post here, but before you jump to conclusions maybe you should email them and ask them personally. Maybe they just have better things to do. Maybe we all should have better things to do. Really though why do you care? Why don't you just call them and see if they would like to go climbing with you and then you can really get to know them as they are not as a posting on a website.

At any rate most of the people I have talked to get the most juice out a good rant, a flame, or a spray session. Truth is that most people want to spray but are afraid of being ridiculed here online.

I never campaigned for the removal of spray to some dingy back office cyberspace. Rather it was forced down mine, your's and the webmasters throat by a small but vocal group of posters who thought their agenda was in some way superior to the sprayers rolling online conversational style.

So after some friendships bit the dust over this topic the sprayers sort of stepped aside. Now more sprayers have stepped up to take their place.

I sense an even further rift as the powers that be begin to take sides. Someone speaks their mind in appreciation of spray and all the sprayers get ripped?

So hey uh Cyberspace is a bitch huh boyz?

Most people really don't need or get much help from some persons interpretation of a route done 2 days, 2 years, 2 hours ago. There are a million guidebooks, other climbers to gain insight from, ability to explore is still there. Mission statement? C'mon...

Maybe spray has taken a turn for the wierd in a few posts, but really the only true way to rid this site of spray is simply to shut it down. Now what would I do on my rest days if that happened?

Mike

[Zenolith]

I agree with Mike. People who want someone to filter the content of the site should lighten up a bit. You don't really have to read it, just like you can mute commercials or turn off the TV; censor yourself. I don't rely on route beta from here or any other internet source (besides csac). If someone gives beta I take it into consideration if I think they are for real, but I don't change or make plans based on what I hear here. I enjoy some of the humor that is technically spray and if this site were all beta I would get bored and go to a rowdier site.

[jon]

It feels like this is directed at me.

I think the haste in which I wrote my post wasn’t clear in what I meant and left out some things, so I will elaborate a little.

First, Donna you’re right, point taken, I apologize for the foul mouth.

I was wrong in saying people are trying to ruin this site, that is not what I really meant. I’m not sure what I was aiming at, more the lines of involuntarily devaluing it. That is up for argument though, and is dependent on who you ask.

People may get the impression that we were against spraying on the site, which is not true. We did create the spray topic for this vary purpose, and with a few exceptions have done virtually no censoring. Like many of you I get a good laugh out of many of the comments and I think it gives flavor to the site. I do believe though there is a time and a place for such comments.

After “Spray detracts from this site” topic I changed a few of the scripts, detailed in this post http://www.cascadeclimbers.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000346.html . This wasn’t an attempt to cover up spray, just give people the option of seeing it or not.

We are not taking sides on anything; we are just addressing a situation. The exception to this is our unwritten policy on making threats. I don’t find this the least bit unreasonable. I don’t see my vote counting any more than anyone else’s here, it’s just I have to determine the consensus and make a decision, but that’s the place we put ourselves in and I can live with that. Dambed if you do, dambed if you don’t, right? All we can TRY to do is the best job we can.

I think the last paragraph in my first post is important, and that is to have a little respect for other users. It would suck to create all this animosity between someone on this site, only to meet them on a route to discover how cool they actually are. I think many of us are different in flesh and bone than we appear in pixels on a screen.

We are not trying to create a stale, sterile atmosphere, but I believe you do have to draw the line somewhere. Where that line is drawn is up to you. This site isn’t much without the users, I see it as a community website (maybe not representative of the whole climbing community). It’s your contributions that make the site a valuable resource, we are just providing the medium. This is your site.

You gotta admit, it’s funny that we are arguing about this at all.

Happy surfing, spraying, and climbing!

Jon

 

[Cpt.Caveman]

And Finally the hostility brews up.....

I disagree with filtering through all the postings and bickering you people to about spray in your threads to be honest. This is the internet as Erik noted. Gimme a break. Just relax and enjoy the fun I say. Bummer those legends don't post but that is not going to stop me from sprayin with a fire hose all over the place

To treat this site as a guidebook and gather conditions is cool and all. But to rely on some 2nd hand knowledge from a person you don't even know is funny too. Get angry because some unknown person posts something you don't like is a bit ridiculous as well from my point of view. Get real people you can only gather so much useful info. In fact just go out there and find out for yourself it is part of the adventure. I guess I could say that knowing if you need the blue .375 Alien on some gnarley 5th pitch is a little different though...

Loren you are cool and all we just don't see eye to eye on this one bro.

[This message has been edited by Cpt.Caveman (edited 05-23-2001).]

[AlpineK]

I've managed to do 99.999% of my climbing without help of the internet. The internet can help you sure, but those of you who take this site too seriously need to take a pill.

[ScottP]

This site is nothing more than an arena for a very diverse group of people to get together and commiserate about a common interest. Like the Usenet sites rec.climbing and rec.backcountry, you have those who use it to gather info about routes they want to do, those who use it to spew their own dogma, those who use it to gain knowledge (which I find quite scary), and those who use it as a segment (or all) of their social lives.

You can't control how others use this, or any other site. To try is futile.

Roll with the punches, take one to the head, or get out of the ring; the choice is yours.

 

[Cpt.Caveman]

To say that people are here to ruin your site is BS if you ask me. I gave this some thought and I think I am grateful to be able to spray all over this board. However I don't think that the stale environment is what I come here for at all. There are some good topics\discussions on gear etc as well as just plain ole shootin the shit. I have met several climbing partners due to this site\spray and that is great. I will admit none of these guys probably likes my spray but nevertheless they still are climbing with me

Personally Jon you are the one that has decided to referree the site due to your own personal decisions. That is respectable.

Read what ScottP says too it is true. Kick me off if you want but I think it is pathetic that people are getting so bent out of shape I give info here when I know it or see fit so quit trying to fuckin blame everything on the people that like to spray we are worthy contributors too.

[pope]

I confess to posting a ridiculous topic in the wrong category ("Big Lou" in Alpine Lakes...I didn't know what I was doing at the time, being kind of a new guy). And I don't care too much about who appreciates that kind of crap, although I certainly don't intend to ruin this site. To me, this site provides an opportunity to joke around with a bunch of climbers (since my wife doesn't let me drink anymore); I don't find the information any better than I can get out of a guide. Ethics discussions are kind of boring but definitely important, as our resource of quality cragging is quite limited.

Here's the obvious solution to jkassidy's beef: make "spray" a category that appears in the top 25, then encourage those naughty sprayers to avoid sabotaging route reports and information swaps. That way, nobody needs to sort through "elementary-school" level humor to get serious information.

[Beldar]

Dear Humans,

Dear to the supreme level of self absorption exhibited on this site and elsewhere on this little pathetic rock you call earth, earth will be blown up. We thought we would keep you little hairless monkeys around as pets but truth is we no longer find you cute and you're a very annoying race. That and earth is obstructing our view of venus. So do whatever you do when faced with THE Apocalypse and we will get back to you with a countdown...or not!! <chuckle> Ok continue bickering and chattering in your little self important manner.

Beldar

[pope]

That sounds like a good solution, Pope. I was just looking at the distribution of posts on the Climbers' Wall, and I couldn't help noticing that the topics receiving the most action are "spray" topics, and a bolting discussion (see Bolt Mania, Big Lou, and Big Lou Jr). MAY WE CONCLUDE THAT THE MAJORITY OF THOSE WHO FREQUENT THIS SITE ARE INSPIRED TO CONTRIBUTE TO SUCH TOPICS? Why, then, should we move these out of the "Most Recent 25"?

Pope is right: if the sprayers would be careful to keep the spray out of the route reports, then those who wish to avoid this sort of thing wouldn't have to swim through it to find "serious" information, and "spray" topics could still be viewed on the "top 25".

Finally, let's remember: ALL BETA AND NO SPRAY MAKES BILLY A VERY DULL BOY.