dylan_taylor Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 Rock and Ice did some test recently that showed you can easily develop 1300 lbs force on a short Toproping fall. I think if I had an Older rope, and an older Reverso.....well, it's pretty sketch if your not paying attention to your gear. Be interesting to see what happens in 3 or 4 years as some of these ultra thin single lines get old. Where is the 1300 Lb developed? I think maybe i skimmed this article a few months back. 1300 Lbs of force would be reasonable on the anchor, after a bigger TR fall, but that means only half of that (or less) on the belay-to-anchor strand, and less than half of that again on the brake-side-edge of the belay device used - and that is based on zero friction. So, way less than 300 Lbs or so (actually like 30Lb-40Lb). The other good news (news that means that sharp edges may be less of a concern than you would think) is that if you are belaying off the anchor using the reverso or guide atc in autolock-configuration, the sharp edge is never rope-bearing. Plus, if you are ever worried about your reverso getting sharp, just rappel on it backwards. The reverso is still superior to the BD guide ATC for ropes bigger than about 9.4 or 9.5. I have had softer and/or fuzzier ropes get trapped in the guide ATC in small 2nding falls, and it can take a quick improvised block and tackle to get the rope unstuck. DT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenderfour Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 The solution to a sharpened Reverso is simple: Buy an ATC Guide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snoboy Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 Or, ahh... buy a new Reverso?!?!?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark_Husbands Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 I've used both and think they both work fine, but I like the deeper grooves on the guide and the larger diameter autoblock hole on the Reverso, which allowed me to rig it with opposed non-lockers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark_Husbands Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 Also, I never used the reverso with the brake across the frame part, always the bar part. I was suprised when someone showed me a Petzl diagram showing braking that way. Seemed obvious that thin frame area would wera faster than the bar. Whenever I was worried about a fast rappel I would put on a leg loop biner or something like that. I still use the Reversino for the ice skinnies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpinfox Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 I got a BD guide a few weeks ago and have now used it for about 20 pitches; mostly single, but with some multi. My conclusion thus far is that even in the "low" friction mode there is too much friction for smooth operation in either the standard belaying-the-leader configuration, or in the autoblock mode. Rappelling a somewhat fuzzy, doubled 10.2mm rope was also a chore. At the start of the rappel, I could pretty much take my brake hand off the rope and not move. Trying to pull in rope in the autoblock mode was a serious work out. Belaying a leader in regular friction mode was annoying because I couldn't feed rope out fast enough when the leader was clipping. The device will likely operate more smoothly after some wear and would certainly be smoother with a newer and skinnier rope, but I'm really considering going back to my Reverso at this point. Too bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 If you look at a new BD Guide you will see the surfaces are not super smooth. I think they could tumble the thing more than they do before anodizing it. The Guide does seem to get a bit smoother with use, but fat, fuzzy ropes still bind in it. If they had made the internal dimensions just a couple millimeters larger, it might have made all the difference in the world. Seems like they were catering primarily to those who climb on skinny ropes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeroforhire Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 The thing I have most about the atc-guide is when you use thick ropes (10.5 or more) the little grooves catch the rope way too much... making it very difficult to rap with. Yeah I know... just rap with the other side... well even when I do that It doesn't seem to be too smooth. Keep in mind, I am pretty light so I have trouble rapping due to my weight... 155lbs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billcoe Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 Yeah, you got it Dylan. 1300 lbs at the anchor, and that was the max they could get (lack of memory but most likly a dymanic, not a static rope was used) So probably not an issue, but if anyone was concerned all ya have to do it borrow a rat tail file from a logger buddy or Alpine fox, hit it to round it off and there ya go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olyclimber Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 I noticed the BD Guide was a bit sticky even with the new skinny rope I have, but I was glad to have two fat biners when rappelling on that same rope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Trippett Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 Neither.....meet the new gold standard, almost any issue you may have with any other device has been addressed......compliments of our Czech friends Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark_Husbands Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 how do you use that as an autoblock? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Trippett Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 how do you use that as an autoblock? just like a reverso, but it's easier to understand if you see one.... also, the red posts can be adjusted with two allan wrenches for smaller ropes, ala reversino...and it feeds and raps smooth like an old atc. no sharpness issues and lighter than all of them as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmace Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 Cool, id like to see that up close can you buy it here..? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billcoe Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 Cool, id like to see that up close can you buy it here..? Yeah Avitrip, bring it! Where do you get one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 (edited) Edited July 10, 2007 by Winter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Trippett Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 Cool, id like to see that up close can you buy it here..? Climb On in Squamish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken4ord Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 Anyone know a place in Seattle that sells these?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 When you and your partner are using the ATC guide, and belaying the follower in autoblock mode, you can swap them at each belay and save some time on the switch-overs. It works as follows: Upon reaching the belay, you set your anchor or clip to the chains and belay your buddy straight off the anchor in autoblock mode. When they arrive at the station, you leave them on belay while they get set for the next pitch. They give you their ATC and you put them on belay from your waist using their locking 'biner. They unclip their belay on the device you had been using to belay them up to that station and take it with them. This was shown to me recently, and attributed to Colin. It is a nice trick, except when the other guy has a locking biner you don't like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbb Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 why not just tie off the rope, clip the rope-touching biner into your belay loop, then unclip the anchor-touching biner and party on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrogdortheBurninator Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 With colin's atc swap you dont need any tie offs. The autoblock serves that purpose until they start climbing again (you can give a comforting stopper knot if it makes you feel better on a hanging stance). For me it seems quite a bit less clustered and a bit faster than using tie offs and moving the atc from the anchor to your belay loop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hemp22 Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 that Czech device looks like a pretty elegant design. it would be nice to check one out to see how easy it is to get used to. it's hard to tell from the pics, but is the path of the rope the same for lead belaying vs autoblock belaying? as another alternative, I've been pretty happy with my TRE Sirius with all the advantages it has over a Reverso or ATC-Guide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra_Commander Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 does that thing have bluetooth? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hemp22 Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 yeah, and it doubles as an MLU too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpinfox Posted August 13, 2008 Share Posted August 13, 2008 This is a good thread. Hey Avitripp, you still like that Raviltek belay device? Any updates on your review? How much are they at ClimbOn? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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