Can't F*cking Decide!!!! Down or Synthetic Bag?

[Tom253]

Okay folks....I know this question has probably been asked a million times but I need to ask it anyway.

 

Down or synthetic fill for a mountaineering bag? I understand that a down bag is highly compressable, warm, and must be kept dry, and weigh less that synthetics. I also understand that a synthetic will insulate when wet but is bulkier and heavier than down.

 

So....with that said....for those of you that use down for mountaineering / climbing....how do you go about keeping it dry? You use a bivy sack? If so....what are the best bivy sacks out there? I've been looking at some of the sacks made by Integral Designs with the eVENT fabric. eVENT appears to be better at breathing than Gore-Tex according to the gear reviews I've been reading.

 

F*ck....looks like I went on too much. SO...down or sythetic. That is the question. What do you prefer and why?

[tomtom]

Okay folks....I know this question has probably been asked a million times but I need to ask it anyway.

 

No you don't. You need to ask how to use the search function.

 

Down vs. synthetic

[sweatinoutliquor]

Get the Bibler tripod bivy... Seems to be pretty much rad. I have a OR bivy that doesn't zip down the side, and it makes getting into and out of it a nightmare... Thankfully I haven't had to do it in a storm yet! I use a 20 degree down bag with the water resistant treatment. I find that I just don't have room in my pack for the synthetic. Especially if I am expecting the temp to be below 32 degrees... Above could mean rain, and that would have me wanting to bring my synthetic. Okay, good luck, and check the other threads... They have loads of good info. Ends up being personal preference though.

[John Frieh]

Summer or winter mountaineering? Where (nothwest? Alaska? East Coast? Altitude?)? Weekend shots or extended outings?

[cj001f]

Buy something. If you don't like it, sell it.

[BreezyD]

Why don't you look at a few waterproof down bags?

 

I just picked up the Exped Woodpecker ... but I know other manufacturers make them as well.

 

Exped Woodpecker

 

Supposed to function as a bivy and a bag in one.

 

Brianna

[tomtom]

Buy something. If you don't like it, sell it.

 

Buy something at REI. If you don't like it, return it.

[cj001f]

Buy something at REI. If you don't like it, return it.

But you are cheating them! WAAAAAAA!

[mattp]

There are lots of different flavors in a "mountaineering" trip. For example, I believe that we discussed the possibility that you might be better off NOT having a "waterproof-breathable" shell on your down bag for summer use with a tent because there will be little temperature gradient accross the membrane. I think a gortex or similar shell is more standard on a more winter-weight bag like if you are going to Alaska or something, and I wonder what the benefit might be to have such a shell on your down bag used in combination with a bivvy sack.

 

Similarly with the down vs synthetic question there are lots of variables: if you are planning overnights and few longer trips, you should generally be able to keep your bag dry enough for one night and if not, you can suffer through a night while some people like the synthetic bags for more expedition-oriented climbing. Also, how "careful" do you want to have to be with your down? I've been camping in tarps and snow caves in the Pacific Northwest for thirty years, with down and without a bivvy sack, and I am able to generally stay dry enough. While others think one or the other or both is essential in such a setting, I have completely soaked my bag once or twice but only once or twice.

[tomtom]

Learn something new every day!

[Dru]

Maybe you should take a down bag on a rainy/freezing trip up a big wall and see how it works.

[BreezyD]

According to Exped, they don't actually stitch through the Pertex, instead using "electronic welding", which is how it retains it's waterproof characteristics...

 

"Welded, not sewn: The Patented welded-baffle construction prevents needle holes in the shell, retaining the waterproof performance of the fabric."

 

The proof will be in the pudding on my first wet day out I suppose.

 

Brianna

[mattp]

The question was about a "mountaineering bag" but, yes, mountaineering can include big walls. Where you are hauling and where you may get stuck in a wet location for an extended stay, synthetic is probably a very good idea. One of the few times I've completely soaked a down bag was on a wall.

[Dru]

According to Exped, they don't actually stitch through the Pertex, instead using "electronic welding", which is how it retains it's waterproof characteristics...

 

"Welded, not sewn: The Patented welded-baffle construction prevents needle holes in the shell, retaining the waterproof performance of the fabric."

 

The proof will be in the pudding on my first wet day out I suppose.

 

Brianna

 

According to a thread on ukclimbing.com Pertex is about as waterproof as cheesecloth.

[SurferJon]

I'm also in the market for a new bag. It would be used for winter mountaineering trips of one day duration. It would see use in one of two situations. First, as an overnight bag when I don't want to drive all night to a location and then climb all day. Second, if I get caught in a storm and need to bivvy. I generally prefer to camp tentless so the bag or bag/bivvy combo would need stand alone capability. Cheers!

[sweatinoutliquor]

I dunno, this looks cool I guess... Never seen or felt one, but I like the idea of big overhead space and a partial side zip. Pretty cool!

http://www.backcountrygear.com/catalog/tentdetail.cfm/BD160

[TheOldHouseMan]

Well, this is what I f*cking have. I f*ucking purchased the god damn Lite Sabre bivy and the f*cking Feathered Friends Rock Wren. Now I really like how f*cking lite this sh*t is. I probably wouldn't take the f*ckin' sh*t on a wet/cold winter trip but for spring/summer/fall trips the sh*t f*ckin' kicks some serious ass. F*ckin' A.

[dbconlin]

I would go down, with a epic, event, or similar water-resistant, highly breathable shell. Feathered Friends makes great ones.

 

If it is likely to rain on your trip, bring a tent and, possibly, use a water-proof stuff sack such as those made by OR. It it won't rain AND you don't want to bring a tent, I think an eVent or GoreTex bivy would be best, although not the lightest, and an Epic (such as the BD/Bibler winter bivy) would be lightest and adequate as far as weather protection goes.

[mattp]

If it won't rain - as in the forecast says high pressure and clear for the next five days - leave the bivvy at home. The amount of moisture you get from dew doesn't justify the weight of the bivvy, in my opinion. I often bring a mosquito-net dome, which weighs almost nothing but makes life MUCH nicer if bugs are out, but I either bring a tent or tarp or not.

 

If you are camping (not actually bivvying on some ledge somewhere) the bivvy doesn't add much but weight. In marginal weather? A light tent or tarp weighs little or no more than (most) two bivvy bags.

[Tom253]

Thanks for the opinions folks. I decided on a Marmot Lithium EQ and an Integral Designs Overbag bivy made of Event fabric. Still haven't had a chance to try it. The weather has been perfect for testing the system but I haven't had the time. Will try it out in December when I have a free weekend and let ya know how it works for me.

[Stefan]

Down. Lighter. Lasts longer. Leave it out of the stuff sack hanging in the closet or under your bed.

 

Don't climb in rain. It's no fun.

[ncascademtns]

When I moved out here from Minnesota, I was told that the northwest was wet, that was no fib. I was also told to purchase a synthetic bag, that I did. Where is it now? Hanging in my closet. For how long? I can't remember the last time I took it out. I went back to down and I can't remember the last time I hike out of a climb with a wet bag stuffed in my pack. It just doesn't happen. (to me)

Don't let the wetness of the northwest make you think that down is not the way to go.

[jmace]

My partner has the one I would buy, synthetic bottom and down top, to me that is the perfect mixture. Still packs relatively small as well

[Dustin_B]

Okay folks....I know this question has probably been asked a million times but I need to ask it anyway.

 

Down or synthetic fill for a mountaineering bag? I understand that a down bag is highly compressable, warm, and must be kept dry, and weigh less that synthetics. I also understand that a synthetic will insulate when wet but is bulkier and heavier than down.

 

So....with that said....for those of you that use down for mountaineering / climbing....how do you go about keeping it dry? You use a bivy sack? If so....what are the best bivy sacks out there? I've been looking at some of the sacks made by Integral Designs with the eVENT fabric. eVENT appears to be better at breathing than Gore-Tex according to the gear reviews I've been reading.

 

F*ck....looks like I went on too much. SO...down or sythetic. That is the question. What do you prefer and why?

 

I didn't read the other posts, but I will say this. I can think of very few reasons or places to own a synthetic bag and the PNW isn't one of them. "how do you keep your down bag dry" you ask? simple, a waterproof stuff sac (<2 oz). You keep it in the wp stuff sac until your tent is set up. get in your tent, take bag out of stuff sac, sleep, repack, repeat. its so simple, I really don't understand why people have problems?? maybe I have been lucky that my tent hasn't blown apart during a rain storm? I don't know. It seems pretty simple from my end.

[tomtom]

Tents are aid.