Condition's at Convention Center

[alipneH]

After watching video today of the convention center, and the conditions that these people chose to live in, my opinions have changed greatly. There have always been instances where groups of people/refugees have been forced to subsist and survive on their own without the aid of municipal services. Usually people will organize to at least take care of basic sanitation and keep the areas where they eat and sleep in a reasonably ordered fashion. I saw none of this in the video that was broadcast today. The reporter described feces, urine and garbage IN THE LIVING AREAS!!! Did anyone think to organize themselved and designate an area for garbage???? Or how about showing respect for their own dead, and relocating the body's to another area so that the children wouldn't see them? Whatever opinion's we may have about the relief efforts of our government, (local, state and federal), I find no reasonable explaination for this lack of initiative on the part of the people living in the convention center for 4-5 days. Are you telling me that of all the men present at the location, none of them had enough respect for themselves and the dead to MOVE THE DEAD BODY????? Civilized people don't do this......even in the worst of times during enemy occupations, seiges, and other national disaster's, civilized people took care of themselves and their neighbors. I'm just calling it as I see it. That place was filthy, rank, unorganized, and unsanitary. Sick people lived in these conditions for no reason other than the majority of those that could would not clean it up. I'm tired of hearing about racism, lack of government response, poor planning, and all this other whoa is me bullshit. People are ultimately responsible for their own well-being. This is just 2 guy's thoughts on this, and we certainly haven't experienced what these people did, but it just seems like this hasn't been mentioned yet, but we're doubtful that we're the only one's seeing it.

[TREETOAD]

I wonder how you would find your way to the shitter in the middle of the night with no light amongst 10,000 or 20,000

people crammed together.

[Stonehead]

Its not just the anarchy in New Orleans that is appalling people, we've seen numerous talking heads blaming the chaos on the lowest parts of society, that they aren't representative of the USA. I ask how are they measuring this lack of height - money? Social status? Race? And are they not part of America? How a country treats its "lowest rung" in their time of need says much about the society.

 

 

In many cultures the working class hold community values in a lot higher esteem than the so-called "better" levels of society. Has rampant free market philosophy infiltrated the American psyche to the extent that anything with no dollar value is worthless? Or perhaps the nanny state has removed peoples coping skills.

 

 

We get the uneasy feeling that this is a microcosm of American society, that you have so plundered and devalued the social contract that the USA can no longer be called a truly civilised country. We see George Bush smirking and playing the guitar, vowing his friend's beachfront mansion will be rebuilt and we wonder what has happened to the USA we used to know.

 

The news on Katrina from outside the USA (Op-Ed)

[ScottP]

Civilized people don't do this......even in the worst of times during enemy occupations, seiges, and other national disaster's, civilized people took care of themselves and their neighbors. I'm just calling it as I see it

Care to share what enemy occupations, seiges and other natural disasters you've experienced that gives you the ability to call it as you see it?

My guess is you have no idea what those people have experienced and therefore are in no position to second-guess their motivations.

[EWolfe]

That's a great article, Stoney.

[Dave_Schuldt]

So what else is new, if your poor your fucked. I wonder how long before we get tired of helping these folks. I am holding off my donation for a few months. Some of these people will recover and move on, others will need help for years.

[catbirdseat]

The poor are the people who are used to taking orders, not giving them. All the people who ran New Orleans, who made the everyday decisions, were able to evacuate by car. The ones left were the ones lacking initiative. I don't think anyone should be surprised.

[Doug]

sounds like a typical June night at camp muir

[TREETOAD]

sounds like a typical June night at camp muir

 

Now that is funny

[lancegranite]

Three of my friends were working a show (wheel of fortune) a the NOCC, they barely escaped after the hurricane struck.

3/4 of the local stagehand crew lost everything.

[tivoli_mike]

The poor are the people who are used to taking orders, not giving them. All the people who ran New Orleans, who made the everyday decisions, were able to evacuate by car. The ones left were the ones lacking initiative. I don't think anyone should be surprised.

 

 

Uh, actually they lacked means.

[Dechristo]

Civilized people don't do this......even in the worst of times during enemy occupations, seiges, and other national disaster's, civilized people took care of themselves and their neighbors.

Its not just the anarchy in New Orleans that is appalling people, we've seen numerous talking heads blaming the chaos on the lowest parts of society, that they aren't representative of the USA. I ask how are they measuring this lack of height - money? Social status? Race? And are they not part of America? How a country treats its "lowest rung" in their time of need says much about the society.

 

In many cultures the working class hold community values in a lot higher esteem than the so-called "better" levels of society. Has rampant free market philosophy infiltrated the American psyche to the extent that anything with no dollar value is worthless? Or perhaps the nanny state has removed peoples coping skills.

 

We get the uneasy feeling that this is a microcosm of American society, that you have so plundered and devalued the social contract that the USA can no longer be called a truly civilised country.

The poor are the people who are used to taking orders, not giving them.

 

In our society, this behavior is civilized. It is the behavior representative of our civilization. The inhabitants of the lowest rungs of the economic ladder no longer till the soil to scratch out an existence, they scan the channels to satiate fantasy or to feed a desire for materialistic goods whose ownership promises happiness.

 

Our civilization no longer fosters (indirectly by necessity) the acquisition of the skill sets of survival. We need not produce anything to sustain our existence. Our culture ensures common sense to be uncommon. If there is a culprit behind the cause of this full-spectrum of ignorance, displayed from poor governmental leadership to the cited behavior in squalor, it is in our society's highest goal: the acquisition of monetary wealth. Follow the money, it leads to a legacy bankrupt in humanity.

[bcollins]

 

In our society, this behavior is civilized. It is the behavior representative of our civilization. The inhabitants of the lowest rungs of the economic ladder no longer till the soil to scratch out an existence, they scan the channels to satiate fantasy or to feed a desire for materialistic goods whose ownership promises happiness.

 

Our civilization no longer fosters (indirectly by necessity) the acquisition of the skill sets of survival. We need not produce anything to sustain our existence. Our culture ensures common sense to be uncommon. If there is a culprit behind the cause of this full-spectrum of ignorance, displayed from poor governmental leadership to the cited behavior in squalor, it is in our society's highest goal: the acquisition of monetary wealth. Follow the money, it leads to a legacy bankrupt in humanity.

 

Dechristo this was very well stated. I'm choosing to form my own opinions about this mess, via informed, clear headed insight's vs media finger-pointing blather. Sad commentary on our society indeed, in it's ability to forsee immediate threats and come up with solution's before all hell breaks loose.

Barry

[b-rock]

The poor are the people who are used to taking orders, not giving them. All the people who ran New Orleans, who made the everyday decisions, were able to evacuate by car. The ones left were the ones lacking initiative. I don't think anyone should be surprised.

 

Lacking initiative? Pull your head out of your ass CBS, that's just about the stupidest thing you've ever posted...

[archenemy]

So what else is new, if your poor your fucked. I wonder how long before we get tired of helping these folks. I am holding off my donation for a few months. Some of these people will recover and move on, others will need help for years.

Do you mean that you are planning on making a donation after the first wave of donating is over? Now that is planning ahead--very smart.

[cj001f]

I'm choosing to form my own opinions about this mess, via informed, clear headed insight's vs media finger-pointing blather.

Many people claim this in our society - the followers of Rush, Ann Coulter, Michael Moore and Al Franken believe themselves to be rational beings. Not saying you aren't, simply that most humans believe they are intelligant and rational, as well as good drivers.

 

Now would you please stop this drivel - I've an eBay auction ending in 10 minutes!

[Dave_Schuldt]

So what else is new, if your poor your fucked. I wonder how long before we get tired of helping these folks. I am holding off my donation for a few months. Some of these people will recover and move on, others will need help for years.

Do you mean that you are planning on making a donation after the first wave of donating is over? Now that is planning ahead--very smart.

 

Yes

[tivoli_mike]

By Brian Thevenot

Staff writer

 

Arkansas National Guardsman Mikel Brooks stepped through the food service entrance of the Ernest N. Morial Convention Center Monday, flipped on the light at the end of his machine gun, and started pointing out bodies.

 

"Don't step in that blood - it's contaminated," he said. "That one with his arm sticking up in the air, he's an old man."

Then he shined the light on the smaller human figure under the white sheet next to the elderly man.

 

"That's a kid," he said. "There's another one in the freezer, a 7-year-old with her throat cut."

 

He moved on, walking quickly through the darkness, pulling his camouflage shirt to his face to screen out the overwhelming odor.

"There's an old woman," he said, pointing to a wheelchair covered by a sheet. "I escorted her in myself. And that old man got bludgeoned to death," he said of the body lying on the floor next to the wheelchair.

 

Brooks and several other Guardsmen said they had seen between 30 and 40 more bodies in the Convention Center's freezer. "It's not on, but at least you can shut the door," said fellow Guardsman Phillip Thompson.

 

The scene of rotting bodies inside the Convention Center reflected those in thousands of businesses, schools, homes and shelters across the metropolitan area. The official death count from Hurricane Katrina in Louisiana was 71 as of Monday evening, but that included only those bodies that had been brought to a make-shift morgue in St. Gabriel.

 

Nearly a full week after Hurricane Katrina, a rescue force the size of an invading army had not yet begun the task of retrieving the bodies Sunday. What's more, officials appeared to have no plan.

 

Daniel Martinez, a spokesman for FEMA working on Interstate 10 in eastern New Orleans, said plans for body recovery "are not being released yet."

 

Dozens of rescue workers questioned Monday said they knew of no protocol or collection points for bodies; none said they had retrieved even one of the many corpses seen floating in neighborhoods around the city as they searched for survivors.

 

Scores of rescue workers this week repeated the same mantra, over and over: We can't worry about the dead; we're still trying to save the living.

 

But as rescue teams across the city said they had checked nearly every house for survivors, the enormity of the death that lay in Hurricane Katrina's wake came into sharp focus even as the plans for taking care of the dead remained murky.

 

Mayor Ray Nagin, addressing the potential body count for the storm for the first time, said the storm may have claimed more than 10,000 lives.

 

In a news conference Monday morning, Deputy Chief Warren Riley said his department was "not responsible for recovery."

 

"We don't have a body count, but I can tell you it's growing. It's growing," he said.

 

As the rescue missions covered more and more ground but yielded fewer survivors, New Orleans Police Deputy Chief Steve Nicholas said that the time has come to start dealing with the dead.

 

"I know we're still rescuing people, but I think it's time we start pulling out the bodies," he said.

 

The highest concentration of casualties from Hurricane Katrina likely will come in the Lower 9th Ward, St. Bernard Parish, areas first inundated on Aug. 29 with floodwaters that engulfed second story homes in minutes. New Orleans also will likely see mass casualties, New Orleans Police Capt. Timothy Bayard said.

 

"We're going see a lot more bodies out of New Orleans East than we anticipated," he said.

 

In just one subdivision, Sherwood Forest, survivors who showed up to the Convention Center on Monday said police told them roughly 90 people in the subdivision had died.

 

In St. Bernard, 22 bodies were found lashed together. Officials surmised the drowning victims had tried to stay together to keep themselves from being washed away in the storm.

 

Lt. Governor Mitch Landrieu said "more than a thousand" people had died in St. Bernard. "When the death toll comes out, it's going to be a jolt for everybody," he said. "I'll be surprised if the casualties in St. Bernard are less than a thousand."

 

Even Uptown near the river, one of the few spots of dry land, a body lay in front of a white wooden shotgun double at 4732 Laurel St. The body of an older woman lay under a gray blanket, pinned down at the corners by brick and slate, adorned with a plastic-wrapped flower bouquet. Above her, a yellow cardboard sign quoting John 3:16 had been taped to the window.

 

Alcede Jackson

Rest in Peace

In the loving arms of Jesus

 

Given the length of time many had been dead, and in the water, some of the bodies already might be unrecognizable, and some may never be recovered.

 

Many trapped by flood waters in shelters found their own ways of dealing with those who died in their midst.

 

Near an elementary school at Poland and St. Claude avenues, Dwight and Wilber Rhodes, two brothers, said they had tried to save a middle-aged man and woman at the Convention Center who appeared to have drowned.

 

"We performed CPR on them, but they were already dead," Dwight Rhodes said. "So we took the food out of the freezer and put the bodies in."

 

Of the four bodies that lay just inside the food service entrance of the Convention Center, the woman in the wheelchair rattled Brooks the most. When he found her two days before among the sea of suffering in front of the Convention Center where one of the last refugee camps evacuated, her husband sat next to her. He had only one concern when Brooks and some of his comrades carted her away.

 

"Bring me back my wheelchair," he recalled the man telling him.

 

One of the bodies, they said, was a girl they estimated to be 5 years old. Though they could not confirm it, they had heard she was gang-raped.

 

"There was an old lady that said the little girl had been raped by two or three guys, and that she had told another unit. But they said they couldn't do anything about it with all the people there," Brooks said. "I would have put him in cuffs, stuck him in the freezer and left him there."

 

Brooks and his unit came to New Orleans not long after serving a year of combat duty in Iraq, taking on gunfire and bombs, while losing comrades with regularity. Still, the scene at the Convention Center, where they conducted an evacuation this week, left him shell-shocked.

 

"I ain't got the stomach for it, even after what I saw in Iraq," said Brooks, referring to the freezer where the bulk of the bodies sat decomposing. "In Iraq, it's one-on-one. It's war. It's fair. Here, it's just crazy. It's anarchy. When you get down to killing and raping people in the streets for food and water … And this is America. This is just 300 miles south of where I live."

 

http://www.nola.com/newslogs/tporle..._09.html#077206

[archenemy]

Reading that makes me cry.

[Stefan]

Remember, these people were ordered to leave.

 

They chose not to leave.

[Stefan]

The poor are the people who are used to taking orders, not giving them. All the people who ran New Orleans, who made the everyday decisions, were able to evacuate by car. The ones left were the ones lacking initiative. I don't think anyone should be surprised.

 

Even the poorest people can walk 8 miles over two days.

[Ratboy]

Remember, these people were ordered to leave. They chose not to leave.

 

Your compassion overwhelms. Are you including the gang-raped 5 year old in your blanket statements?

[Stonehead]

Being poor is knowing exactly how much everything costs.

 

Being poor is getting angry at your kids for asking for all the crap they see on TV.

 

Being poor is having to keep buying $800 cars because they're what you can afford, and then having the cars break down on you, because there's not an $800 car in America that's worth a damn.

 

Being poor is hoping the toothache goes away.

 

Being poor is knowing your kid goes to friends' houses but never has friends over to yours.

 

Being poor is going to the restroom before you get in the school lunch line so your friends will be ahead of you and won't hear you say "I get free lunch" when you get to the cashier.

 

Being poor is living next to the freeway.

 

Being poor is coming back to the car with your children in the back seat, clutching that box of Raisin Bran you just bought and trying to think of a way to make the kids understand that the box has to last.

 

--more reading for those who don't know what being poor means...

[cj001f]

Remember, these people were ordered to leave. They chose not to leave.

 

Your compassion overwhelms. Are you including the gang-raped 5 year old in your blanket statements?

 

They weren't white. So those 2,000 people were really only about 20 white people. Not that big of a deal.

[Stefan]

Remember, these people were ordered to leave. They chose not to leave.

 

Your compassion overwhelms. Are you including the gang-raped 5 year old in your blanket statements?

 

Huh? People who want help becuase they chose not to leave is hypocritical. Those people who were stranded need to take responsibility for their own lives.