A sad day in the Holy Land.

[BelaySlave]

My thoughts go out to anyone with family affected by the Gaza/West Bank settlment evictions. It is a sad but strong day for Isreal. It just goes to show who is actually for peace.

 

on

R

[RuMR]

about fuckin' time...

[Ireneo_Funes]

the so-called "holy land" is the closest thing we've got to hell on earth. what a screwed-up hopeless place. I'm glad I don't live there.

[mec]

why is it a sad day? sad for those getting evicted, yes. but what about the palestines that are getting their land back? This is just one more movement in the big chess game going on over there. As much as one side or the other makes movements towards peace, we are not going to see it in our lives. They have been battling for centuries, and will continue to battle.

[ChrisT]

A sad day indeed. Some of the settlers have lived there for 30+ years and now they watch helplessly as their homes are bulldozed. I don't know why Israelis and Palestinians can't peacefully co-exist on this strip of god forsaken land.

[Ireneo_Funes]

It's because they're morons and racists.

[Alasdair]

A sad day indeed. Some of the settlers have lived there for 30+ years and now they watch helplessly as their homes are bulldozed. I don't know why Israelis and Palestinians can't peacefully co-exist on this strip of god forsaken land.

 

Sad day my ass. The only thing that is fucked up about today is their insistance that they bulldose the houses. Why not leave them for the palestinians. Fuck the settlers they were there illegally anyway. Its about time they gave the land back.

[BelaySlave]

I read that the Palestinians want every building that was illegally built, torn down any way, so i look at it as they, the Jewish settlers, are just doing them a favor.

 

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[Iapetus999]

The sad thing is that some extremist Palestinians will see this as a victory for Terrorism instead of the Peace Process.

So it may just encourage more terrorism...but there doesn't seem to be any alternatives that would decrease terrorism (aside from annihilating the Palestinians which still probably wouldn't work)

[archenemy]

Wow, a mini-online version of the real argument!

[Dru]

Maybe the Settlers can immigrate to the US and start building gated communities on Indian Reserves.

[bunglehead]

Hey guys, If you go back and read your recent history of Israel more closely, most of the settlers in Gaza were actually encouraged and subzidized by the Israeli government to settle there after the 1973 war (or Yom Kippur war, as it's called in Israel), so they weren't there illegally. In fact a lot of them in the northern part of Gaza moved there to try to make a better life for themselves, as they were mostly poor, and secular, Israelis from working class cities. The ones in the southern part, those nutcases are a different story. A fair percentage of those are those crazy Lubavitchers from Brooklyn, you know, the same group that has fistfights on shabbat over disagreements on interpretation of Talmudic law,

They're a different story.

And while it may be a sad day for the 8 thousand Israelis being evicted from Palestinian terrotiry, I'm sure the 1.1 million Palestians that live in Gaza see it differently.

While it's easier on the brain to label everyone in that part of the world morons and racist, and dismiss it as an eternal struggle without resolution, that's simplifying a bit.

That being said I personally don't really have a whole lot of pity for those fucking idiots (mostly teenagers) that are resiting the relocation by spraying the soldiers and police with gasoline, ammonia and acid. Kind of nulls their claim of the relocations being immoral.

[Alasdair]

Agreed The Isreali govenment and its policies have been the main problem, and while I dont agree with terrorism, it does seem that at least some it could have been avoided by less hard line stances by the Isreali govenment. Kind of like our govenment right now.

[bunglehead]

I'm surprised Sharon was the one to make this stick, considering he personally conducted raids (while in the army) to kill Palestinians terrorists hiding out in Jordan. I guess facing a populace of people so desperate that they're willing to use themselves to deliver bombs has finally sunk in to those idiots like Sharon, and particularly Netan-yahoo. The dick's originally from Brooklyn. Maybe if the Israeli government stuck to the agreements hammered out in the Oslo accords, there'd be a lot less dead Israelis and Palestinians.

I feel bad for all those poor bastards that are caught in the consequences of toxic politics. Most Palestinians and Israelis jsut want to go to work, maybe go have a drink/smoke after work, and then go home to their families.

[Ireneo_Funes]

I feel bad for all those poor bastards that are caught in the consequences of toxic politics. Most Palestinians and Israelis jsut want to go to work, maybe go have a drink/smoke after work, and then go home to their families.

 

You're right. It's like this all over the world. It's the morons and racists that make the news, though.

 

The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity.

[Jim]

Certainly the Israeli right-wing is blame for this mess. The government, including Sharon (with US money) encouraged settlers to enter the West Bank and Gaza. The problem with the vision of Greater Israel is that not enough Jews believed in it to move there. They over-reached. And without the numbers it was a major sociological and monetary cost to defend. The big question is what happens in the West Bank in the future.

 

Hamas should just STFU and help build up the Gaza Community. I hate the stone throwers on both sides that apparently want nothing but anarchy out of the process.

[knotzen]

While I think this is an important concession on the part of Israel, it sure is painful to see the images of people distraught over losing their homes and the land they love. It's very sad.

[mec]

well is it just as sad that for the past 30 years, the palestinians have seen israelis move into the land that they love.

 

and it is just as sad that for the past umpteen years the two sides have gradually been killing each other while the leaders talk about peace.

 

the whole situation over there is sad, and until the two sides can learn to like each other, it will continue to be sad. the israelis moving out is not going to create peace. things might calm down for a bit, but killings will continue. that is sad.

 

or maybe we should be happy that they are killing each other. The world has too many people as it is.

[Kyle_Flick]

As I read some of your opinions, it is suggested that those who strap bombs to themselves to kill others are justified by Israel's hardline policies? I don't think so. There is no justification for terrorism. Israel's policies are not hardline, but rather justified protection of their citizens. Just like we'd expect our government to protect us from another 9/11. As for the pullout from Gaza, Hamas sees it as a victory for terrorism, but Sharon, appropriately so, sees it as the only pragmatic solution when there is no peace partner on the other side. Finally, the Oslo Accords were not broken by Israel, but by Arafat and his government by continuing to support terrorism.

[mec]

i am not suggesting any of the terrorism is justified by israelis policies. i admit that i really do not know their policies, hardline or not. i was mainly trying to point out that the whole situation over there is sad, not just the fact that people are being forced from their home.

 

I am curious why people think it is sad now that people are being pushed out, when we should be sad all the time for the chaos that goes on over there.

[j_b]

As I read some of your opinions, it is suggested that those who strap bombs to themselves to kill others are justified by Israel's hardline policies?

 

nobody suggested anything such. murdering people for any reason is wrong .... but so is stealing other people's land! gaza is 50km long by 15km wide, 8000settlers lived on 25% of the land, 1.2 palestinian refugees lived on the rest. no kooky religious theory is going to justify that.

 

on edit: 1.2 millions of course

Edited August 17, 2005 by j_b

[Kyle_Flick]

As I recall, the surrounding Arab countries with the support of Palestinians (who were under Jordanian jurisdiction) attacked Israel in the Yom Kippur War. Don't the aggressors forfeit certain rights when they engage in war with a neighboring country? As such the settlers saw themselves as legitimately living on land which they either purchased, title was unclear or any prior owner had abandoned. In any event, the settlements were an attempt to act as a buffer for any further aggression. The land of Israel is tiny compared to any country in the world and cannot afford to lose any war. Neither Jordan, Eygpt nor Syria have any interest in resolving the refugee problem. Due to those countries irresponsible actions Israel has to again pay the price.

[Dru]

Canada whupped your ass in the War of 1812. That's why our snowbirds are allowed to settle in gated communities in Palm Springs, Tuscon and Miami.

[cj001f]

As I recall, the surrounding Arab countries with the support of Palestinians (who were under Jordanian jurisdiction) attacked Israel in the Yom Kippur War.

Because Israel had launched a surprise attack in the 7 Day war 6 years earlier that they wished to reclaim. Israel is quite large compared with Vatican City, San Marino, Monaco, Lichtenstein or Andorra.

 

I love the historical myopia of Middle East arguments.

[Fairweather]

As I recall, the surrounding Arab countries with the support of Palestinians (who were under Jordanian jurisdiction) attacked Israel in the Yom Kippur War. Don't the aggressors forfeit certain rights when they engage in war with a neighboring country?

 

Well said. And I agree.