RMI Accident

[Stefan]

The instructor motioned to the people behind me to do a fall to see how I would react under a more realistic situation ( I didn;t know it was coming)Big difference when you don't know it is coming.

 

That is why I like to have the rope not taught when going uphill. I like that extra second to hear someone yell "falling" before I get yanked at the same time they yell "falling". See thread here:

http://www.cascadeclimbers.com/threadz/s...true#Post332174

[sobo]

See thread here:

http://www.cascadeclimbers.com/threadz/s...true#Post332174

 

I immediately thought of this exact same thread when the discussion turned this way. Thanks for bringing it back up again, Stefan.

 

BTW, I'll be back out on the Nisqually again tomorow, but I'm not volunteering to be the guinea pig this year!

[Dan_Larson]

IMHO I don't think it would matter a whole lot whether the line was taught or not this stuff happens fast BTW I think most anyone would leave some slack in the rope unless they were totally ignorant and shouldn't be doing the activity anyways.There was slack when my training session was happening. I truly believe the main factor in making the even slightest bit of difference in reaction speed is conditioning and being aware of emergency situations along the route and certainly luck never hurt. I am most definitly sure the guide is in excellant shape.Speculation is one thing go check it out for yourself. Like i said it all looks good on paper. I have wondered about some of the things RMi does since safety is a priority with them especially dealing with less than experienced clientele. I will probably get a lot of flack for this since I don't know shit but. I wonder about some of the stuff RMI does. At about 13200-13500 (if I remember correctly) there has been the last couple of years a traverse on a steep section about 50 feet long with a life ending crevasse on the downhill side(huge)ROPED parties cross this section routinely with no protection Self arrest is IMPOSSIBLE and in my opinion should at least be crossed unroped so only 1 person loses their life if a fall occurs . To me 230 am seems way late to leave muir Seracs on the headwall heating up and breaking, killing people late in after noon (1980or 81 there was a little incident at the traverse between the flats and base of cleaver. Anyways I am rambling and setting myself up for abuse but it has been a while.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

At about 13200-13500 (if I remember correctly) there has been the last couple of years a traverse on a steep section about 50 feet long with a life ending crevasse on the downhill side(huge)ROPED parties cross this section routinely with no protection Self arrest is IMPOSSIBLE and in my opinion should at least be crossed unroped so only 1 person loses their life if a fall occurs .

 

Instead of going unroped, why not put a picket or two in?

[catbirdseat]

 

Instead of going unroped, why not put a picket or two in?

That's an excellent question.

[Dan_Larson]

Sorry,that was my point They put in no protection and cross this regularly Unroped as bad as it sounds is better IMO than roped and exposed

[gary_hehn]

Yes Dan, situations like that are exactly where you use pickets or some other form of protection. It would be unreasonable to unrope for every 50 foot section of exposure.

[Dan_Larson]

Would your response be the same if a death was involved. I must be the only one seeing my reasoning. I was merely saying unroped is a better option than high risk otherwise. I was pointing out that protection should be placed on a RMI route in those situations read it more slowly and I am sure it will come to you

[Kraken]

I was on the Kautz Glacier route yesturday at about 10,200 feet when all this happened. A white helicopter was flying back and forth all around the south side of the mountain, and I thought maybe something had happened, then I learned that they were taking human waste off the mountain.

 

Shortly after, the Army helicopter flew right over my head towards, then over Muir. It went out of sight and I knew something had gone wrong. It then lifted off and flew right over my head again.

 

When I got off the mountain today, I was barraged with several messages on my cell phone from people who thought I may have been involved.

 

Anyways, I hope those four guys are OK.

[Gary_Yngve]

Would your response be the same if a death was involved. I must be the only one seeing my reasoning. I was merely saying unroped is a better option than high risk otherwise. I was pointing out that protection should be placed on a RMI route in those situations read it more slowly and I am sure it will come to you

 

You could write it more slowly too; your writing has a dearth of punctuation.

[neicher]

I climbed this route 2 years ago with RMI (their private climb program) and our guide did protect this section with a couple pickets. The attached photo shows my partner moving through one of the anchors. Perhaps it's left up to the guides' discretion...

[knelson]

Don't they normally put in a fixed line there? Never done the DC, but I thought I heard comments and saw photos of a fixed line. Maybe that was just late season.

[Dan_Larson]

The fixed line is at the base of the cleaver this is much higher and I correct myself it was more like 100+ feet And thanks for the advice on the speed of my writing Gary how is this....F....U...C...K...O...F...F

[Gary_Yngve]

I just find it laughable that you criticize someone on their reading comprehension of your supposed prose when the quality of said prose leaves much to be desired.

[Dan_Larson]

I am just trying to get a point across and you are trying to lessen my opinion because of grammar ? I think what I was saying is plenty clear now quit being a little bitch

[Allan_Halsey]

I think what I was saying is plenty clear now quit being a little bitch

 

Run on. Should be:

 

"I think what I was saying was pretty clear. Quit being a little bitch."

 

or

 

"I think what I was saying was pretty clear; now quit being a little bitch."

[Suz]

Boys, boys. Sorry to jump in here, but I can't resist, even if it means you'll slander my mother and dead relatives in addition to myself.

 

Having just read the entire thread, I can't help but agree with Dan in his opinion that unroping is better than climbing roped but unprotected, and that roped AND protected is best of all. (fixed lines, on the other hand... hmm)

 

However, Dan, I think the only one lessening your opinion is you. Stop being a little bitch yourself, clarify if some of us don't get your typed dialect right away, and be secure enough in your opinion that you don't have to sling shit when someone offers a little constructive criticism.

 

Soapbox put back away. Go to town if you like. If not, sincere thanks for offering some constructive dialogue that will hopefully make people think (again!!) about the un-wisdom of unprotected roped climbing, whichever approach they decide to take.

[Jeebus]

John Lucia is indeed an experienced and strong guide...I've been on a rope with him on an RMI guided trip. He knows what he's doing, but this is an example that an inexperienced client like myself can not only endanger himself but his rope team as well. goodluck and speedy recovery to all injured.

[Dan_Larson]

The masses have spoken, I can live with that. Suz you should have been on this site a couple years ago it was not only acceptable to use the term little bitch in an endearing manner but it was protocol.I usually handle an insult with a return insult. I see you slipped yourself in calling me " a little Bitch.See how fun it can be ? Deep breath , aahhhhh. Now don't you feel better.

[To_The_Top]

<soap box start> Please take fights to spray <soap box end>

[Dan_Larson]

I'm sorry

[Kraken]

why does every thread have to divert from the topic at hand and turn into a mud slinging-insult fest?

[Couloir]

why does every thread have to divert from the topic at hand and turn into a mud slinging-insult fest?

Because this is cc.com. If it didn't turn out that way, it'd be summitpost.com

[spicoli11]

we like things dirty out these ways

[Bill_Simpkins]

The instructor motioned to the people behind me to do a fall to see how I would react under a more realistic situation ( I didn;t know it was coming)Big difference when you don't know it is coming.

 

That is why I like to have the rope not taught when going uphill. I like that extra second to hear someone yell "falling" before I get yanked at the same time they yell "falling". See thread here:

http://www.cascadeclimbers.com/threadz/s...true#Post332174

 

This is why the accident happened. Is because there was slack in the rope and the client built up speed. The conditions were really icy and the guide was putting in pro, when the client walked closer to him(to talk or something), putting slack in the rope and then fell, pulled another and then the guide. Apparently, there is still a long visible gouge in the snow where the guide tried to arrest the fall.