catbirdseat Posted April 11, 2005 Share Posted April 11, 2005 Rescue Helicopters Being Returned to Combat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurthicks Posted April 11, 2005 Share Posted April 11, 2005 The reason MAST is suspending operation, Petersen said, is war. The Army's priorities, he explained, are Iraq, Afghanistan and the war on terror. Â god I love president bush. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted April 11, 2005 Share Posted April 11, 2005 We're kinda bad off if we can't spare a helicopter or two over here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K_Y_L_E Posted April 11, 2005 Share Posted April 11, 2005 I think it is a great idea to take away resources that would actually help in preventing the loss of American lives. Lets face it, I am much more likely to be killed by a stray bullet that was meant for the interim President of Iraq than to hurt myself hiking in the Cascades. Keep up the good work Bush! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Schuldt Posted April 11, 2005 Share Posted April 11, 2005 Why do I get the feeling we are going backwards? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted April 11, 2005 Author Share Posted April 11, 2005 The following was sent to me from my friend, Mark Glidden, President of Everett Mountain Rescue: Â "We were informed that this was going to occur about a 8 months to a year ago. We were not happy about it. We sent letters to our senators and congress people. The redeployment of military recourses is necessary for that war Mr. Bush got us into in Iraq. I support sending good supplies and resources to keep our young people over there alive. Those aircraft and crews have a great mission over there and I wish them the best in supplying medical attention to the people over there on both sides. Â We are now going to have to rely on the Navy for our support in situations like you had with your son (1999 MAST rescue on Dickerman). I have been involved in a couple of operations with the Navy. They did a great job in those cases. They fly aircraft that do not have all of the abilities of the Black Hawks the MAST was using but they do a great job. I have heard rumors that they may be getting Black Hawks soon. That would add to their altitude ceiling and give us something we could use on Glacier Peak if needed. I think we still have some Chinooks we can still call on for high altitude (edit-Chinooks are not still available). Â Yes, it is concerning but we still have our SAR aircraft and are doing some things to increase our abilities there as well. Our helo team is better trained than ever. Our aircraft are in good repair, our air crew is really great and dedicated to the SAR effort, and our SAR deputies are committed to our air SAR mission. Â If you wanted to do something you could get your friends to voice their concerns. One direction might be toward the Snohomish County Executive, Aaron Reardon to advocate for support and resources for our SAR aircraft. Those aircraft are now owned by the Sheriffs department, and we continually struggle for support of our air program. It wouldn't hurt them to know that voting citizens are concerned." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Posted April 11, 2005 Share Posted April 11, 2005 Actually, the MAST Units normally stationed at Fort Lewis and Yakima were deployed to Iraq 3 years ago. The groups staffing those domestic deployments have been a hodgepodge of National Guard units from around the country. All Blackhawks have been in Iraq with the crews. The National Guard folks have been using old Huey's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted April 11, 2005 Share Posted April 11, 2005 Considering all of the mountain rescues around here, it does seem pathetic, as the article points out, that there are no helos operated by local agencies that can do the job. Maybe some of the counties can get to together and purchase a suitably equiped H-60 or maybe even look into a new UH-1Y if it is cheaper and equally suited to the work. When it's not flying rescue missions, it could be used just like other county helos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted April 11, 2005 Share Posted April 11, 2005 Considering all of the mountain rescues around here, it does seem pathetic... Â There are not many mountain rescues "around here", but there are ones where only a helicopter will do. Â You are more likely to not get your helicopter ride due to bad weather than due to a shortage of helicopters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted April 11, 2005 Author Share Posted April 11, 2005 Actually, the MAST Units normally stationed at Fort Lewis and Yakima were deployed to Iraq 3 years ago. The groups staffing those domestic deployments have been a hodgepodge of National Guard units from around the country. All Blackhawks have been in Iraq with the crews. The National Guard folks have been using old Huey's. My partner was rescued by a Blackhawk last June. It came all the way from Oregon. Ft. Lewis had none to send. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treknclime Posted April 12, 2005 Share Posted April 12, 2005 You are more likely to not get your helicopter ride due to bad weather than due to a shortage of helicopters. Â NOT true. Within the last couple of years, there have been rescues on Rainier that required helicopters, but those with high altitude capabilites were NOT available. During those hot summer days, the little choppers were not able to make it to Camp Muir--even for life threatening emergencies. The routine was...sled the patient down to Pan Point, and pick up there. If I remember right, some patients had to be moved all the way down to Paradise for a heli-pick up. Many of these rescues, were of course, done on blue bird, windless days...but the weather was HOT, and the lift capabilities of all aircraft was reduced (which really affected the less powerful birds available, and limited their use, at least in MRNP). Â Not sure if the Chinkooks will be available, or not... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erden Posted April 12, 2005 Share Posted April 12, 2005 As one who needed the competent help from MAST at one time, I see this 'redeployment' as a loss. Â Erden. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyjizzy Posted April 12, 2005 Share Posted April 12, 2005 This is only going to affect Army MAST units. Navel, Marine, and CG MAST capabilities are not affected (yet). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike_Gauthier Posted April 12, 2005 Share Posted April 12, 2005 It's a little misleading, the Black Hawk helicopters are not more powerful than the Chinooks, and they even have a little less rotor clearance.  You may recall seeing a Black Hawk crash on Mount Hood due to performance issues. Similar accidents have occurred on Mount Shasta and in Gila Canyon AZ. The Oregon Black Hawks are a newer model (Lima) than the MAST ships here. They are more powerful and lighter (so I’m told) and did do a couple of pickoffs around 12K last summer. We were glad they could help!  The Hueys referenced in the article really do not have the performance margins above 10K. At least, the Huey's that I've seen around the state. Many would question a loaded Huey (hoist and medical equipment, etc) working even that high. As it stands now, there is no "easy" air aviation evacuation above 12K +/-, unless it's really cold.  And yes, on some warm days, it’s hard to get a small contract ship to Camp Muir, especially when all the helicopter vendors are off fighting wild fires.  Hopefully we’ll have one of those "calm" summer this year until things sort out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted April 12, 2005 Share Posted April 12, 2005 During those hot summer days, the little choppers were not able to make it to Camp Muir--even for life threatening emergencies. Â Hot days are weather-related, aren't they? The 1042 medivac out of Salem has been around. Perhaps they were in Afghanistan or Kosovo when these incidents happened. Or an issue with the mast or nat'l park regs they can't take over a commercial contract. Or maybe they just were unavailable or unknown as an asset in WA? Unfortunate. Â The crash on Hood was the upgraded but heavier pavehawk. There is a certain feeling of sketchiness asking for even the lighter blackhawks (at least down here on Hood) though perhaps it is unfounded. People are a bit on-edge after that crash. It has to be pretty bad (or at least it should be) before they enter the equation. Obviously the pilots have the best knowledge of what is possible. Â That last crash was only at 10.5k. The 1042 seem to be doing really well on Rainier though. It just shows how little it takes for something to go wrong! Â If the 1042 gets sent back to Iraq you'd better start hiking (or crawling). Best not get in an accident to begin with eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tread_tramp Posted April 12, 2005 Share Posted April 12, 2005 It was a MAST Huey out of Yakima that saved my ass a couple years back. It's a pretty good chance I wouldn't have survived my accident without the timely and highly skilled work they performed in getting me out. My understanding is that they were pushing the altitude limit when the lifted me off my perch at 7,000ft. I'm greatful the resource was there. It isn't just Mountain rescues that will be affected, I presume. MAST does a lot of rushing people to the hospital from traffic accidents on the interstate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted April 12, 2005 Share Posted April 12, 2005 Maybe just get one of these. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billcoe Posted April 12, 2005 Share Posted April 12, 2005 The government should stay out of that business. Climbers should take it upon themselves to take care of themselves like we have done throughout Europe for the entire last century IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted April 12, 2005 Author Share Posted April 12, 2005 The government should stay out of that business. Climbers should take it upon themselves to take care of themselves like we have done throughout Europe for the entire last century IMO. You have got to be kidding, right? Fun-ny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpine_Tom Posted April 12, 2005 Share Posted April 12, 2005 The government should stay out of that business. Climbers should take it upon themselves to take care of themselves like we have done throughout Europe for the entire last century IMO. I certainly never go off on a climb without making sure my helicopter pilot is back from vaction, and my mechanic has the bird all fueled up and ready to go, just in case. Owning a personal rescue helocopter is one of the ten essentials, isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Crash Posted April 12, 2005 Share Posted April 12, 2005 The armed forces also reclaimed the guns they loaned to resorts for avalanche control. Â drC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
korup Posted April 12, 2005 Share Posted April 12, 2005 Â If this is a sign of how thin resources are getting, no wonder Gregoire and Schweitzer are pissing themselves about the upcoming fire season... yikes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill_Simpkins Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 I agree with billcoe. We intentionally put ourselves in risk. Why should we expect someone to save us? The people getting rescued should have to pay for every cent of the rescue, unless there are volunteers involved. If I'm ever hurt that bad, it will feel good knowing a helicopter is on it's way, but I should still have to pay for it. They could put the money somewhere to help people that never asked for grief, like abused children, etc... Now that's a rescue program. I'm sure flying a blackhawk up a mountain with a crew costs a pretty penny. I don't think climbers deserve free or subsidized rescues. Â I think the effort should ultimatly be from volunteers or money from the ones being rescued. Â Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 I agree with billcoe. We intentionally put ourselves in risk. Why should we expect someone to save us? The people getting rescued should have to pay for every cent of the rescue, unless there are volunteers involved. If I'm ever hurt that bad, it will feel good knowing a helicopter is on it's way, but I should still have to pay for it. They could put the money somewhere to help people that never asked for grief, like abused children, etc... Now that's a rescue program. I'm sure flying a blackhawk up a mountain with a crew costs a pretty penny. I don't think climbers deserve free or subsidized rescues. Â I think the effort should ultimatly be from volunteers or money from the ones being rescued. Â Â I believe I read somewhere that in Europe climbers can buy insurance for rescues, and that the price was pretty reasonable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted April 13, 2005 Author Share Posted April 13, 2005 I thought it was that you MUST buy insurance in Europe. I think it costs $15 a day? You'd all scream bloody murder before you'd pay that here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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