SNOWMOBILE ACCIDENT... WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT SNOWMOBILES ON MT. BAKER???

[JERRY_SANCHEZ]

Police identify victim of avalanche

 

The Bellingham Herald

The Everett snowmobiler killed in an avalanche on the south slope of Mount Baker Wednesday was identified as Jeff Diedrich, 31.

Diedrich's name was released Thursday after the Whatcom County Sheriff's Office confirmed that his family had been notified.

Diedrich was snowmobiling with three Everett-area men Wednesday when he crested a ridge in the Schrieber Meadow area near Mount Baker and may have triggered a large avalanche. His friends were far enough away to be able to avoid the slide, but one of them saw Diedrich get caught in the snow, according to Deputy Scott Huso, Whatcom County search and rescue coordinator.

The three friends, along with other recreational snowmobilers in the area, began the search after the avalanche started at about 10:30 a.m. The avalanche field was about 200 yards by 600 yards, Huso said. Volunteers from the Whatcom County and Skagit County snowmobile clubs, Bellingham Mountain Rescue, and Whatcom County 4x4 Units joined the search along with a helicopter team from Whidbey Naval Air Station.

Diedrich was found at about 5:30 p.m. and flown by helicopter to St. Joseph Hospital, where he was pronounced dead.

 

[rayborbon]

Well I hate to see anyone go down dude

Here is my thought on snowmobiles on Baker. Stay off the glaciers. Don't need more trash on them than we alrady have... Otherwise I don't care much. I think as long as they don't run me over then oh well.

-RB

[Rodchester]

Ok so it sucks that the guy died.....I still hate those sleds, and the mentality of those who ride them.

To make it worse Bake is NOT a proper place for them, in my mind anyway.

2 cents.....

------------------

Have a nice day.

[Alpine_Tom]

I’d call this Darwin in action.

I’d favor snowmobiles at Mt Baker, as long as there’s an open season on them, with a reasonable limit (say, 2 per day per hunter.) They’re loud, obnoxious, destroy the wilderness experience for everyone for miles around them, and are extremely efficient at hauling great quantities of trash into the backcountry, and leaving it behind smoldering in their firepits for others to enjoy. (Or maybe it’s backpackers who are leaving empty cases of Schmidt’s and empty bottles of 10W-40?)

Maybe I shouldn't talk like this, this being Good Friday and all, but...

[dberdinka]

Here was the avi report from Wednesday morning

"Considerable avalanche danger above 4000 feet and moderate below Wednesday, except for a locally high danger on steep sun exposed slopes late morning and afternoon hours Wednesday, especially in areas that have accumulated significant recent snowfall."

Hmmm, lets see;

High-marking requires steep-slopes

10:30 is late morning

Squak/Easton area is south facing and sunny

Baker accumulates significant snowfall

Considering how easy it is to check the avi report by phone or web, I say these people exercised really poor judgement

[tomrogers]

In thirty years I have yet to see any oil cans in the back country. Want I have seen is a lot of trash and vandalisim on hiking trails.

[retiredpop]

I just dropped in to this board. Is it obligatory to make some remark about trash and oil cans to make a post? This is a good one "maybe it’s backpackers who are leaving ---empty bottles of 10W-40?" especially as snowmobiles don't use 10W-40. Alpine Tom how would you like someone to have such little regard for you and your family when someone you love dies? I am a snowmobiler and a hiker and I can honestly say I see less trash in snowmobile areas than on the hiking trails. Maybe it is because snowmobiles are so efficient at hauling great quantities of trash back out.

[philfort]

We can certainly guess and say, yeah, they were exercising poor judgement, but we can't know for sure. Maybe they knew what they were doing, and had assessed the slope for stability. Most likely not, but you never know.

As for snowmobilers and trash - well, the title of this post was "WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT SNOWMOBILES ON MT. BAKER???", so I think it's appropriate to make comments about the trash they leave. retiredpop, I'd have to disagree with your assessment of the hiker vs snowmobiler trash, but hey, that's just my opinion.

If y'all get a chance, and you're passing through Snoqualmie Pass, go check out the Gold Creek snowmobile sno-park once it melts out (maybe it already has?). You won't believe how much trash there is there (consisting of Coors boxes, beef jerky packages, and *2-stroke* oil containers). Absolutely disgusting!

This winter I used snowmobile support to get into the Ingalls Peak trailhead to go skiing. Admittedly, I only recall seeing one piece of trash, a budweiser can, which wasn't bad considering the amount of snowmobile traffic. But what did piss me off what the disregard other sledders had for the Wilderness boundary (which goes along Ingalls Pass ridge). Perhaps the "No snowmobiling past this point" sign wasn't visible enough, or perhaps they chose to ignore it; whatever the case, there were a lot of snowmobiles zooming around right below Ingalls Peak, and around Ingalls Lake, well within the wilderness boundary. There were also lots of old sled tracks there. Thanks for reminding me of this, I'll go write that letter to the Forest Service I've been meaning to write.

Favourite quote from a sledder arriving at Ingalls Pass, just shortly after we had skinned to the top. He turns off his machine, looks around, and says:

"Where in the hell am I?"

 

 

[erik]

tom, if you are referring to darwin's statment of survival of the fittest. he did not say that, he only elborateded on herbert spencer's theory.

as far as snowmobiles violating the wilderness. they do in a big way. i used to race 2 stroke dirt bikes in the woods. a two stroke motor only burns about 60-70% of the pre-mixed fuel. that allows for 40-30% more pollutents into the enviroment. all two strokes do this. snowmobiles, jet skis amd dirt bikes. i don't know where you snomobile, but i had an almost fist-ta-cuffs with some of your brethern this past winter. i was skiing up a road and homeboys buzzed me. they told me that i was on their road. something about sno-park pass. me being a passive aggressive told ole' boy to go do something to his mother. let me tell you i thought he was going to have a stroke, so i turned my boards and made some turns. i have also seen two stroke oil contaniers laying a roadside drainage ditch leading into the cle elum river. hmmmmmmmmmmmmm i don't think hikers left this. i also would have to say that snow-might cover the trash up.

either way. lose the tude' dude.

too bad about that guy dying though. snowmobiler or not.

 

[AlpineK]

Last june I skied up Baker via the Easton. I found a snowmobile windshield, lots of cigarette butts, and empty beer cans. I don't think climbers are smoking and I don't think many climbers would carry a 12 pack of bud light on their back.

I've been hiking and seen plenty of dirt bikers and such trashing meadows. I know I'm generalizing, but I think the mentality of people who engage in snowmobiling, or other motor sports, is one of total disregard for their environment.

Snowmobiles could be a lot quiter if they had a real muffler, but then everybody within a mile wouldn't know how macho the snowmobiler was.

I would like to declare open season on snowmobilers, but I know the snowmobilers are probably better armed.

[This message has been edited by AlpineK (edited 04-13-2001).]

[Alpine_Tom]

Okay. As I was writing my post, I was thinking that maybe I should post it in the SPRAY forum. I don’t really want anyone, not even snowmobilers or jetskiiers, to die. I do, however, stand by my position that snowmobiles are an abuse of the wilds, and it’s simply not possible to use them without greatly diminishing the wilderness experience of everyone around you. I grew up in eastern Washington, where people actually used to tell stories about chasing elk with snowmobiles. It’s a sport, I guess, or was. I’m sure it’s a small minority that is obnoxious about abusing the machines, maybe the same percentage as is obnoxious about climbing or surfing, but the difference is that even those who make an effort to be courteous are still spewing pollutants into the air that I have to breathe, and their two-stroke motors are echoing for miles in the quiet, ruining the experience for everyone else.

To me, much of the greatness of the wilderness experience is the absence of machines, of getting away from an environment designed exclusively for the comfort and convenience of people. To experience the nature that God designed, rather than the one man is busy improving, at the risk of sounding too much like John Muir. There are not that many places in the world that we can go to get away from the noise or machinery, and I really don’t see any possible value to racing around with these machines, except to observe the old California creed that if you’re not burning gas, you’re not having fun.

And yes, I own a car, and drive to the places I climb. But I don’t insist on my right to drive it down the Burke-Gilman trail, or down the clam beds at Ocean Shores, or into the Opera House.

My apologies for misattributing the theory of natural selection, eric. Like “schizophrenic,” the term “Darwinism” has become an often-misused shorthand.

And I’m sorry about the oil technology blunder. It’s remarkable, though, when street motorcycles haven’t been able to have two-stroke motors for decades, that it’s still okay to use loud, polluting technology in the woods, where noise and smell carry so much further than on the streets.

 

[erik]

hey guys i don't race em any more. i know how bad they are. i got 50 stches in may face from going over the handle bars in 6th gear. iwas using my past experience to illustrate the point that two-strokes are bad.

my parents have given me grief over climbing since i started. i still get the danger lecture everytime i talk to them.

my brother destroyed his knee riding, my dad broke his neck riding and i screwed my face up riding.. real safe. real safe

[Smoker]

This discussion is a bit disturbing to me, ( and I am sure a few folks). Who are we to say that climbing has no impact? None? Are we talking absolutes?

Why are snowmachines singled out? They are loud? Certainly! So are airplanes and jets!(Ever been buzzed by an F-15 in a remote Cascades valley? THATS F*&%ING LOUD!) Why don't any of you have a problem with them?

They polute? Certainly! So do we, (bears are not the only ones that shit in the woods!)There is a reason I need to filter water in the hills and it is not due to 'mobilers (generally, anyway).

Horse camping, trail riding, snowmobiling,motorboating etc.... Everyone has a right to experiance the outdoors.

We as climbers are regulated, so are everyone else. Do we break the rules? Sometimes... so do the others. Get over it.

Folks have been leaving trash in the high country since we started showing up 200+ years ago. Do enough climbing and you'll have the opportunity to clean some of it up, (as a kid I came across a brass bed frame at 5000' near Emerald lake, been there a long time, no I didn't pack it out)

The point is there is enough of the land for everyone to enjoy. Those who break the rules will get their karmic return. Yea it bothers me that molbilers have great range and can leave large amounts of crap in their wake. But they too will wisen up as their actions are examined more closely.

Believe it or not, there has been a 12 pack or two packed into the high country on more than 1 occaision.

off my box now

Smoker

My thoughts go out to the victems family and friends.

[This message has been edited by Smoker (edited 04-13-2001).]

[NWPowder]

I am so disappointed in the attitudes of many climbers here! Have you no respect for each individual's passions and interests, as well as the loss of a human life? I am an avid climber, hiker, mt. biker, and most recently a snowmobiler.

I have seen and lived all sides of this never ending dispute. Who should get access to this nation's wilderness? When all is said and done, not a single person here has any more rights to enjoy the wilderness than any one else in this world, no matter what sport they enjoy.

Don't even start to talk about things that are harmful to the environment. Has anyone ever seen base camp at Everest? Obviously snowmobilers caused that awful mess. I personally rarely see any garbage hiking, climbing, or snowmobiling. Most people who get deep into the back country have respect for our environment, and believe it or not, getting there on a snowmobile isn't easy. Your average white trash snowmobiler is too drunk to make it out of the parking lot. Personally speaking, riding in our mountains for a day is more tiring than hiking in them.

Of course there is a bad seed in every bunch, hikers, bikers, climbers, and snowmobilers alike. There is no excuse for individuals who don't respect recreation boundaries and rules put in place to protect our forest land. Ever see a hiker or climber break branches off of a tree to build a fire in the back country? I know we all love to see old fire pits and the garbage burned in them. And as mentioned in an earlier post, snowmobiles don't use 10w-40, nor do they carry extra oil into the wilderness. What, do they need to mix oil with the extra gas they filled up with on Stampede Pass? Gimmie a break. BTW, we all love beer.

I personally feel the construction of hiking trails, and the hordes of people traveling through the Washington's wilderness areas are more destructive than any snowmobile floating on top of the winter's snowpack. Do all of you prefer to park in Enumclaw and hike to Rainier before your climb? Those roads have more environmental impact than the combined impact of every snowmobile on the face of this earth. By all means you shouldn't use them! Everyone here getting into environmental concerns is a hypocrite. I think only the Amish can fairly make any comments.

I sure hope anyone here with these negative comments never gets into any trouble in our mountains in the winter. If they do, I know hope they will let the rescue team know they oppose the use of snowmobiles and they would rather be left to die.

As a final comment, every recreationalist has an area suited to his interests. Don't go skiing on the most popular snowmobile trails. Your not going to have any fun and it is only endangering the lives of everyone, as well as causing unnecessary personal conflict. Your not going to see a snowmobile in the back country down at Paradise. Everything has it’s place. Get a clue, the Cascades are enormous and have more than enough room for everyone.

Enough ranting…. You people piss me off. Go ride a sled and you will see the attraction. It’s a blast! I hope to never see any of you hiking, climbing, biking or snowmobiling. These mountains are too crowded for a bunch of whining idiots.

-NWPowder

 

[To_The_Top]

I think that snowmobilers should watch themselves on Baker. I have seen them every time I've headed up the Easton, and they are loud, but a minority are obnoxious. Most when we encounter them slow down and wave. Remember that they helped to look for those two guys a few weeks ago.

I saw one go by while on a climb a few years ago, and started tipping and a snow bridge broke, was able to rev out without falling back and went on. When I ran into others at the parking lot and told them about it they all looked at each other--I thought that was something normal (Glacier=Hidden CravassesX200lb Machine w/200lb rider). They all said that they hate stories like that and that was a worse nightmare. I don't climb that side any more because I don't like the noise and smoke, let alone the slog it is.

[Rodchester]

And still...snowmobiles suck.

------------------

Have a nice day.

[max]

First, I'd argee with the fellow/gal above who noted the high-and-mighty (I had to use "high-and-mighty" 'cause I ain't able to spell righcous!) attitudes of climbers. Yeah I don't like the sound of them, and I particularly don't like to smell of them, but I've spend a moderate amount of time in the b.c. and I've only seen them a few times... THey're really not that much of a problem to me. I honestly believe that what's at the root of the issue here is not a conflict of land use principles. It's a conclict of... for lack of better term, social class. Ok, easy easy easy. I don't mean "class" as a rating, maybe groups. How many times have your climbing buddies made fur of hicks, of women, of old people, of punk teenagers... you name it. Humans are great at cliquing up and making fun of people who are different. And I think this is what's at the root of the snowmachine thing. Climbers can't resepect someone who isn't into masocistic slogging for an outdoor experience. We're elitist snobs.

Second. I do know that snow mobiles cause significant soil compaction. Preivouslt this was thought not to be a problem. It was assumed the deep snowapck protected soils. But recently it has been found that ...DANM! What were those numbers? They cause soil compaction and thats just plain bad and un-American.

toodles

 

[max]

oh yeah. And about snowmachines on baker. If the law allows it, they should be able to be there. It's an acess issue just like climber at the favorite crag... By the books, baby.

 

[jason_h]

i think it is great that everyone is so pro restrictions for snowmobiles, but the moment climbing gets restricted everyone has a fit. don't there tax dollars that go to the same places ours do, so why should they not be able to use the land also. i personally don't like snowmobiles, but i am not in support of the constant restrictions because where do you draw the line? at the snowmobile, or maybe we shouldn't allow mountain bikes in areas where hikers and climbers may be, or how about restricting fixed anchors? i guess what i am saying is that at what point do these restrictions stop? you all drove a car to the trailhead so how can you complain about driving a little farther. and allowing hundreds of climbers on the easton and coleman glaciers isn't exactly pro environment, how would you feel about restricting the use? i am not a snowmobiler but why get rid of them just because they aren't like me. which restrictions do we support and don't support, seems like a fuzzy line to me. keep an open mind and offer the next snowmobiler a six pack in exchange for a tow up the approach trail.

[philfort]

jason_h,

as to why they should not be able to use the land to same extent as climbers, hikers:

Snowmobiles infringe on others enjoyment of the wilderness. Mountain bikers do also, to a much a lesser extent. Climbing anchors virtually not at all.

Therefore, snowmobiles should be the most restricted, mountain bikes less so, and climbing anchors not at all.

There is no line, it is a gray area.

However, I would like to add it seems that sledders can't really "police" themselves very well. All these hot-headed anti-snowmobile arguments from climbers, exist for a reason. They are people's opinion, based on what they've seen and heard. I've seen loads of trash left by 'bilers, I've seen them completely ignore the wilderness boundary in the Alpine Lakes, I've seen them zooming around inside the crater at Mt St Helens. This gives me a negative view of snowmobilers. It's not something wrong with me, it's simply the way they are perceived, and it's *their* fault - the anti-snowmobile sentiment is completely understandable. A few bad apples spoil the whole bunch. I've met nice sledders too, but those don't stick in my mind for some reason. Sledders need some serious PR work, and for that to happen, some of them need to clean up their act.

Phil

(PS: and what's with all the pro-snowmobile posts using Alpine Tom's "10w-40" remark to bolster their argument that snowmobilers don't leave very much trash? Presumably, what Alpine Tom saw was a bottle oil left by a sledder, and he just happened to refer to it as "10w-40". Unless someone's been driving their car up on Mt Baker :-)

[AlpineK]

Snowmobilers and snowmobile manufacturers have really shot themselves in the foot. If they had decent muffelers and 4 cycle engines snowmobiles would have a lot better acceptance by other outdoor users. Instead they put out way too much nasty exhaust and are much louder than they need to be.

I stand by my earlier statements about the trash I found on Baker. We packed up beer for our ski trip, but we caried out the empty cans; every climber I know would have the same ethic. While Everest base camp is an example of bad enviromental practices of climbers, Washington state is full of trashed areas due to snowmobilers, dirt bikers or 4wd nuts.

All this being said I do not want snowmobiles, dirt bikes, or 4wds banned from public land. However snowmobiles need real mufflers and 4 cycle engines and snowmobilers need to have more respect for our public lands.

P.S. To anyone who packs more than 3 beers into the mountains. Wiskey has a much better alcohol to weight ratio.

[This message has been edited by AlpineK (edited 04-15-2001).]

[This message has been edited by AlpineK (edited 04-15-2001).]

[rayborbon]

Report just in from the field:

Rumors of ESnyder possibly sporto climbing in North Bend??!!

Now for the real deal:

Mike A. reports finding serious amounts of garbage near Milwaukee Ridge near Snoqualmie Pass. Mike told me he just spotted a site with a large trash bag that he is not able to carry out. Plus oil spilled in various spots in the snow, and Old Milyuckee beer cans scattered about. Then sighted a wierd\unknown substance in the snow creating the words "32 Degrees". Not to mention them totally carving up the slopes in destruction like fashion so the skiing is all FUBAR.

I know all snowmobilers are not the same but just one sample of what is out there right now as I post this.

-RB

[gregm]

Could be worse, check this out:

Subject:

Fw: [Paddlewise] Jetski incident

Date:

Fri, 13 Apr 2001 11:27:06 -0700

From:

"Kevin Whilden" <kevin@yourplanetearth.org>

To:

<ukc-sea@u.washington.edu>

 

Hey folks,

This forwarded account from Paddlewise is causing quite a stir this morning!

The author gave me permission to forward it on. I think you'll find it very

interesting. Also, apparently the harrassing jetskier is going to have

felony assault charges filed against him (as of this morning).

Thank god jetskis are banned in the San Juans, though perhaps the club

should invest in a set of deck-mounted SAMs (Surface to A-hole Missiles).

kevin

----- Original Message -----

From: "Wes Boyd" <boydwe@dmci.net>

To: "Paddlewise" <paddlewise@paddlewise.net>

Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 10:30 PM

Subject: [Paddlewise] Jetski incident

 

> AAbout 11:30 AM local time on April 8, I was kayaking with two friends,

Tom

> Macomber and Tim Berry, both of Fremont, IN. We were on the southern part

> of Snow Lake, near Fremont, about a quarter mile from the channel into

Lake

> James, 200-300 yards off the nearest shore, which was to our left. We were

> paddling southwest, nearly directly into a wind that we estimate was 20-25

> mph out of the southwest. The air temperature was over seventy degrees,

but

> the strong wind made things chilly. Wave heights were about one foot, and

> had been higher earlier in the passage. As the ice went off the lakes only

> a couple weeks before, the water temperature could not have been warmer

> than about 40 degrees and could have been less. Macomber has about my

level

> of experience, and we have frequently paddled together. Berry, though a

> practiced canoeist, is relatively inexperienced in kayaks, and was in his

> new boat for only the second time.

>

> We were spread out somewhat; I was slightly ahead of Berry and to his

> right, and Macomber was 50-75 yards ahead of me. I noticed another

kayaker,

> in a small, red kayak, slightly out of the channel. At this point, two

> bright red jetskis appeared from the channel and powered up, passing us at

> a distance of approximately 100 yards to our right, heading northeast. The

> first of the two was ridden by a middle-aged man, solo; the second,

> trailing somewhat, was ridden by a young man, with a young woman on the

> back. After a brief period, the trailing jetski with the young couple

> aboard turned around and buzzed past the stern of Tim's kayak at a very

> short distance, with obvious intent, then passed ahead of me at a distance

> of less than ten feet. The first jetski was nowhere in sight. I managed to

> stay upright by bracing. The jetski rushed on ahead, taking a close pass

> past Macomber and spraying him with his jetwash, then buzzed the red

kayak,

> which we later learned was paddled by Joel Bredemeyer of Ft. Wayne, IN,

> whom we had not previously met. As the operator of the jetski passed

> Bredemeyer and swung hard to wash him down, he rolled and stalled. I

yelled

> at Bredemeyer, "Get his number," although he was far enough away that I

> don't think he heard me. I had only a brief glimpse at the small number

> which was black on the red jetski. Bredemeyer did in fact get his number

> when he was slowed at this point.

>

> Regaining his balance, the jetski again buzzed past me at a close

distance,

> and again I managed to maintain my balance with a brace. The jetski then

> proceeded on to Tim and washed him down, rolling his kayak over. I only

saw

> this out of the corner of my eye, but yelled at Tom that Tim was in the

> water, and started to turn around to go and help Tim when the jetski again

> passed me, at a distance of no more than two or three feet, rolling me

> over. I was literally thrown from the cockpit, and had my head above water

> in time to hear the operator of the Jetski yell "Does anyone else want to

> go for a swim?"

>

> Out of my boat, at least 200 yards from shore, with the strong wind

blowing

> me somewhat parallel to the shore, in bone-chilling water, I was in a

> life-threatening situation; I was not particularly dressed for immersion.

I

> had managed to hold onto my paddle and maintain contact with the boat,

> which I righted from the water. I thought briefly about attempting to rig

> for a paddle float re-entry, but it takes precious time, and I figured the

> operator of the jetski would think it fun to swamp me again as I attempted

> to re-enter the boat. I figured he would pay me less attention if I was in

> the water, so I worked my way to the bow of my boat and started to swim

for

> shore, knowing that warm clothing stowed in a dry bag in the boat could be

> essential to staying alive. The shore was in a state park, separated from

> habited areas by a swamp, and I knew it would be a long, cold walk to

> safety if I managed to reach the nearest shore without the boat. While I

> was slowly swimming toward shore, dragging the boat, the operator of the

> jetski took more passes at the kayaks that had managed to remain upright.

I

> was hoping to pull myself close to enough to shore that the strong wind

> would carry me near the tip of a little reedy point, where I might be able

> to get my feet down. It was slow progress since I'm not an exceptionally

> strong swimmer.

>

> Fortunately, the jetski left the scene after about ten minutes of

> harrassing us, with Bredemeyer and Macomber still upright. Bredemeyer went

> to Berry's aid, while Macomber came to mine. We had practiced "over the

> boat" rescues last summer, and I briefly thought of trying one. I am quite

> heavy, and we had difficulty when we'd practiced the rescue last summer in

> much more benign conditions. As it was, we quickly decided the better

> approach was for Macomber to tow me and my boat to shore. Up until this

> point I had not inflated my inflatable personal flotation device, as it

> would have impeded my swimming, but did so now. I grabbed onto the stern

of

> Macomber's boat, and he towed me to where the water was something less

than

> waist deep. The bottom was so soft that I had to breast stroke the rest of

> the way into the reeds, pushing the boat ahead of me. I had difficulty in

> getting the stern of the boat into the soft, reedy shore and turn it over

> to dump out the majority of the water. I managed to find a fairly firm

spot

> on a root ball to stand while I pumped a little more water out of the boat

> with a handpump. I was still knee deep in water, without much hope of

> making it to firmer ground to change into dry clothes. I was finally able

> to get back into the boat. Bredemeyer had been able to similarly assist

> Berry, who had bruises and abrasions from wet-exiting a very snug cockpit.

>

> We spent some minutes catching our breath and assessing the situation. We

> decided to head back downwind to a more populated area with a better

beach,

> about half a mile away, to pull ourselves together. We decided to stay

> quite close to shore, in case the jetski should decide to return for some

> more fun. We got most of the way across the small bay with little

> difficulty, but in the last two hundred yards had to turn partially across

> the 1-2 foot waves in order to make it to a protected channel that leads

> into Big Otter Lake. I could easily have swamped again in the last couple

> hundred yards, as I was not paddling very well and the five gallons or so

> of water still in the kayak's cockpit made the boat somewhat unstable, but

> I managed to stay upright and get the boat to the beach.

>

> A man with a cottage there was doing yard work, and he came to our

> assistance with coffee and towels. I didn't get his name, but we owe him a

> great deal of thanks. We were able to dry off, and I was able to get into

> dry clothes. Macomber called 911 to report the incident, and after some

> minutes a local Conservation Officer came and took the complaint and

> information from us.

>

> After getting warmed back up, we emptied the rest of the water out of the

> swamped boats, got back in and headed back to where we'd parked our

> vehicles on Marsh Lake. We crossed Big Otter Lake and entered the channel

> into Little Otter Lake. We paddled easily down the lake, until I noticed

> two red jetskis tied to the dock ahead of me. I pointed them out to the

> others, and we paddled closely past the dock in order to positively

> identify the jetskis, without saying anything to the people watching from

> shore. We then paddled another couple hundred yards to a bait and tackle

> store, where we stopped, called the Conservation Officer again, and waited

> for his arrival. We were later able to positively identify the operator of

> the jetski.

>

> In four years of kayaking on lakes in Michigan, Ohio and Indiana, and in

> many other years of boating, in all sorts of conditions and with all sorts

> of boaters around, I have never seen the blatant, reckless, callous

> disregard for human safety that the operator of this jetski displayed,

> especially in making several attempts to upset all the kayaks, even after

> two people were in the water. In discussing it later, we pretty well

agreed

> that if three of us had been in the water instead of two, the situation

> would have been considerably worse, and there would have been a much

> greater liklihood of death or severe cold injury. All four of us in the

> water would have meant a near certainty that some or all of us could have

> met our deaths, given the wind, waves, distance from shore, cold of the

> water, and other dangers.

>

> -------------------------

> ADDENDUM: LESSONS LEARNED

> -------------------------

>

> The above statement was written at the request of the conservation

officer,

> and has been slightly edited for length. The operator of the jetski was

> ticketed. We are considering civil action.

>

> Objectively, we were inadequately dressed for immersion, but were

otherwise

> well balanced for the day. I was wearing polarfleece, with a lightweight

> paddling jacket, and it had been uncomfortably warm in the sun, even

> heading into the wind. Heading downwind on the way back across the Otter

> Lakes, in dry clothes -- again polarfleece with the same paddling

jacket --

> I became quite warm in the nearly 80 degree temperatures.

>

> I do feel that I am a little more hypothermia resistant than the next guy,

> due to my size. When I dumped, there was no gasp reflex, no ice cream

> headache, just an "Aw, ****!" I was able to stay operational in the cold

> water for a surprising length of time with a very quick recovery. A skinny

> guy might not have been able to do that. I didn't have a stopwatch on it,

> but estimate that I was fully in the water for ten to fifteen minutes, and

> waist to knee deep for at least another ten.

>

> We were too far from shore in the conditions. Even a hundred yards closer

> in might have meant many things could have gone differently. We were

> probably a little too far spread out, but in retrospect it would have just

> made it easier for the young punk, so that's six of one, half dozen of the

> other. Macomber has since commented that had we been close enough together

> to raft up we might have been able to avoid dumping.

>

> We have got to spend more time in getting proficient with rescue

techniques

> and rolls. However, in this circumstance, I believe Berry and I were safer

> in the water while the young punk was still around. Once he left, in the

> circumstances we were in and considering our inadequate recovery skills,

we

> were probably better off going to shore than trying any sort of midwater

> rescue.

>

> I'm very glad I had the inflatable PFD. Regular PFDs ride up on me in the

> water. I cannot swim effectively in a regular PFD once it has ridden up on

> me, which it does almost instantaneously. Once inflated, the Sospenders

PFD

> gave me considerably more flotation than my regular hard PFD, and held my

> head out of water. While I think that there's still a place for a solid

PFD

> on moving water, I think I will abandon solid PFDs on flatwater in the

> future. However, this may not be the best approach for the average

kayaker,

> who can wear a PFD that won't ride up.

>

> Berry, who is pretty close to my size, was paddling a fiberglass

Perception

> Eclipse, which is a very snug fit on him. He had difficulty getting the

> spray skirt off and exiting the cockpit, swallowing some water, and in

fact

> got an abrasion on his leg from his wet exit. The thigh braces on that

boat

> have since had a date with a dremel tool. I, on the other hand, could

> stand for better thigh braces in my Nimbus Telkwa, as there was a

> possibility that I could have managed roll back upright had I been able to

> stay in the boat.

>

> Clearing the swamped boat of water was difficult, even with a hand pump,

> which wouldn't pick up the last few gallons. The water remaining in the

> boat made handling difficult getting back to dry land. The boat will have

> an electric pump in the near future, if for no more reason than that is

one

> less thing to have to deal with in a swamping and recovery situation with

> limited time and strength available. For the same reason, I plan to start

> carrying a solid paddle float when in cold water conditions.

>

> I have to extend my thanks to Joel Bredemeyer, whom we had never met

> before, and who happened on the scene at just the right (or wrong) time.

He

> was well met, and I'd be honored to paddle with him again.

>

> -- Wes

>

> --------------------------------------------------------------------------

-

> Wes Boyd's Kayak Place http://www2.dmci.net/wesboyd/kayak.htm

> Kayaks for Big Guys (And Gals) | Trip Reports | Places To Go | Boats &

Gear

> --------------------------------------------------------------------------

-

>

>

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>

 

[Backcountry]

quote:

---

I've often wondered if this could be adapted as a way to deal with snowmobiles.

---

For someone to show such comtempt and disgust towards snowmobiles, it sure must have saved you a slog into Ingalls

http://staff.washington.edu/gregm/ingalls.html

[This message has been edited by Backcountry (edited 04-16-2001).]

[tomrogers]

As a photographer, I find all of the activities climbers perform do massive harm and damage to the outdoors. Live the time a came upon a group of you pals, the Mountaineers. They left a trail 6 inches deep and 2 years wide as they trashed a wet lands area. Or how about the many times I have seen dirt trails thoughout the backcountry. I have consistently seen the shinny metal hangers and those ratty slings on the sides of rock faces. Or the many times I have wanted to take a picture of a wonderful snow slope or rock face only to find it spoiled by a climber in the midst of it. Spoiling it for all would would truely try to enjoy it and not subvert it. Climbers if I must say are nothing but a bunch of self serving people who do not care about the enviornment, but rather only about their selves and their rush. I think we should all band together to stop all climbing and the raping of our MOTHER EARTH. Look how they leave all of their trash everywhere. I hate climbers and their dirty deeds. They care only for themselves