Pretty Sick

[bigwalling]

http://climbing.com/news/soloshisha/

[Ade]

Definitely... very sick.

 

But I don't understand how it gets called a winter ascent.

[catbirdseat]

I'll bet the Frenchman left all his gear up and down the route too, per plan. This practice some day must end.

[Dru]

CBS, still winning the "Post like Catbirdseat contest"

[John Frieh]

I was reading the story and it got me wondering...

 

What qualifies as a calendar winter ascent?

 

Not starting the approach until the first day of winter?

 

Starting the approach before the first day of winter but not starting the route until the first day of winter (example: ski to the base and then sit and wait for the first day of winter before starting)?

 

Starting the route prior to the first day of winter but not summiting until the first day of winter (example: climb Liberty Ridge over 3 days and on the third day which also happens to be the first day of winter summit and descend)?

 

What is the definition of a proper calendar winter ascent?

[Winter]

Well I dont know what qualifies, but I know that ascent DON'T qualify since he put in camps through November and topped out before Dec. 21.

[John Frieh]

I'm with you winter: he started the route before Dec 21st and furthermore he wasn’t on the summit after Dec 21st.

 

I ask the question as a good example would be this coming weekend: good weather so one could start skiing into the Pickets Sat and not start climbing until Monday. Would that count if one summited something?

 

Or what if someone started up Liberty Ridge on Sat and didn't top out until Monday. Would that count? Or what if someone approached to the top of the Carbon and didn't get onto the ridge proper until Monday. Would that count if they topped out?

 

Discuss.

[iain]

Why the hell does it matter, unless you want to tell other people you climbed something in winter? if the weather is good, just go climb something. if not, don't. This "technically winter" stuff is pure b.s. Good luck with your quest to get into the guidebooks.

[chelle]

Iain.

[John Frieh]

Why the hell does it matter, unless you want to tell other people you climbed something in winter? if the weather is good, just go climb something. if not, don't. This "technically winter" stuff is pure b.s. Good luck with your quest to get into the guidebooks.

 

Then how is claiming a first ski (and the kids seem to be interested in reporting if it was alpine, tele or snowboard) descent any different than a first winter ascent? Seems you are interested in those...

Edited December 14, 2004 by NOLSe

[Colin]

Well, obviously if the summit is reached outside of calendar winter then it isn't a winter ascent. I have wondered these questions of approaching myself, and although they only apply to a few days in December it is a good question. My personal feeling is that if the approach and maybe even the first day of the climb is done before winter it can still be a winter ascent as long as summit day is the first day of winter.

 

These clarifications are fairly simple here in the Cascades were almost all of the climbs themselves can be done in 1-2 days, but it is perhaps harder to define on climbs that require a lot of time (rope-fixing in the Himalaya, or some stuff closer to home. When Jim and Kit climbed the NE Butt of Slesse it took like 6 days or something). On longer climbs like that, perhaps it is reasonable to think that one must start the climb in winter proper.

 

Yes, Iain, it is obviously a very silly and stupid clarification, but so is every single other type of "first" in climbing. If you have such a cynical view of proper winter ascents, then I should hope you've never taken note of whether you climbed a route free, or if someone skied from the summit proper, or if a hammer was used on the wall, or if the route was climbed alpine-style, or if oxygen was used, etc. From your view of whether a climb was a winter ascent or not I'll assume that you don't even know the difference between redpoint and onsight, since those are the uber-resume-nitpicks.

[Stuart]

I haven't go the book to hand, but did the Brits have the rope on much (at all) on their ascent in 1982? Just wondering about the solo bit too....

[cj001f]

Then how is claiming a first ski (and the kids seem to be interested in reporting if it was alpine, tele or snowboard) descent any different than a first winter ascent? Seems you are interested in those...

Ski descent is an entirely different beast than a standard descent. Winter ascents are summer ascents with more cold, snow, weather and less sun.

 

The only person who cares about tele vs alpine vs board is Tom Turiano.

[Dru]

There is a difference between "winter ascents" and "winter conditions". Winter ASCENTS must be completed within calendar winter. Ascents under winter CONDITIONS may be completed any time the conditions are wintery.

[John Frieh]

Winter ASCENTS must be completed within calendar winter.

 

Agreed but does the approach also have to be completed within that time period? What about the climb itself? So far I have only heard one person say that the climber must be on the summit after the first day of winter.

[Dru]

Winter ascents are for losers. All I care about are winter conditions.

[cluck]

Seems reasonable to me that if one is interested in pursuing such precisely defined records, then one should stick to the strict definition of the words. If JCL wants to be recognized for a "winter ascent" then it's up to him to ensure he climbs within the appropriate dates. Otherwise, it's just an ascent (albeit an impressive one).

[minx]

oh my fucking dog. does it get any lamer? who cares what the calendar says??? oops! he did some bad ass solo on some particular day in december. official winter ascent? who cares! that's one serious "winter conditions" solo regardless of the calendar

[glassgowkiss]

minx- stfu. you don't know what you are talking about. winter conditions on a route don't have anything to do with winter ascent.

as far as Hymalayas goes - this has to do more with permits than calendar. as far as i remember they used to issue winter permits from Nov15- Mar1 (i might be wrong on this one). but it has to do more with spring season- they start on mar 1.

as far as winter ascents go- they have very little to do with conditions. rules are rules dec 21- mar 21. so sorry, but no fwa.

[Dru]

How dare a Frenchman try to claim success in an arena dominated by the Polish anyways

[Bill_Simpkins]

Yeah, I think sticking to strict rules is the best way to go.

Personally, just to keep the rules clear, the route should be started after Dec 21. If the approach is done in Fall, that's fine, unless the approach is part of the route. I mean, someone could live in a cabin half way up the mountain, and climb the rest of it in Winter. That would still be a winter ascent, right?

 

Edited December 14, 2004 by Bill_Simpkins

[John Frieh]

For those of us who care (if you don't STFU) we agree on the dates but what can and can't happen during this period? Approach?

[Dru]

For those of us who care (if you don't STFU) we agree on the dates but what can and can't happen during this period? Approach?

 

Bla bla bla if you get the hand under the sweater but over the bra is it second base or not?

[cj001f]

For those of us who care (if you don't STFU) we agree on the dates but what can and can't happen during this period? Approach?

All parts of the climb must occur in that period. When you leave your front door to when you walk back in

[Ade]

I'd say "All technical climbing must occur during that period."

 

If you approach the route or leave after the winter period that seems fine to me. The Cascades is a little bit odd because in lots of cases the hardest part of a winter ascent might be getting to the base of it.

 

Maybe the peanut gallery discussion about how lame this thread is to spray, rather than dumping on it because they're not interested.

 

Dru - If you ever think you make it second base then post exact details here and I'm sure someone can tell you if it qualified.