EWolfe Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 I can't sleep, so I will share a recent experience. I have been developing a climbing area in Washington, and I tend not to "overbolt" sport routes that i put up. I recently got an e-mail from one of the climbers in the area I am working that stated they wanted to add 20 more bolts to my routes!! I was quite upset, and told him so in no uncertain terms. The question, I guess is this: Because they are "sport routes", does that necessarily decree that all elements of risk should be removed? Many routes at this crag are (in my opinion) way over-bolted. There is no obvious ledging or obvious fall-potential, but if one is climbing 5.11, I feel that a little runout is within the parameters of ones ability! How do folks feel about this? If you can plug in a bolt every four feet, how do you decide what is acceptable? Growing up in a traditional environment, the thrill of being above your gear by a few feet increases focus, IMHO, and generally makes the climb more exciting. Just look at Red rocks or any number of overbolted crags to determine the decrease in (what I consider) sporting challenge. Discuss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drederek Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 The only reason you may want to add a few bolts to a route that I can think of is if you think you may want a few more to lead it when you're old and gray. That's about the only scenario I've seen where ppl write they add bolts. There's no need to drop the commitment level of your routes if you're happy with it. That said Miss Hill wrote in her book that she put up a route so dangerous she declined to document it and if someone 'found' it and bolted it it would be fine with her. So you may feel some responsibility to those who may follow you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 the only problem i have is with truly dangerous (bone breaking / death) fall potential on rap bolted routes. its not fair to have the first ascent toprope a dangerous route into submission and then expect everyone else to lead it ground up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancegranite Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 One angle is to let unwitting friends decide. Send some brave volunteers up your climbs and listen to the cries. ..mild wimpering is good. Terrified cursing is bad. Another thought is: Why go through a LOT of time and energy on your part if the bolt was not put in a spot that might not protect the leader. Deciding where permanent pro goes is not as easy as some think. I have been on both sides of the fence on this one...it's not easy to balance the creative and the possibly dangerous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macson Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 After reading Scott's post, I'm a little confused. When you say you "put up" a route I assume you bolted it on lead. Is that true, or are these rap bolted routes? Assuming you bolted these routes on lead, I think it would be a shame for someone to go back an add bolts to make it easier or less risky for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Distel32 Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 well, I'm going to be very specific. I've climbed I think 5? of your routes at said crag, and I wouldn't want to add any more bolts. Besides the one relocation of a bolt to make it easier to work the crux, I didn't see any need to add or move any bolts. None of the falls were potentially bone breaking or super scary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryland_moore Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 Agree with most of the posts. The only reason to add bolts was if there was a really bad fall that could cause serious injury. Otherwise, tell them it is a sport route and if they want to have the potential to Z-clip, go to the gym. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 hahahaha... MrE sweating over what someone thinks? hahahahaha...tell them to fuck off and go bolt their own routes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
specialed Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 There should be a big brawl, cause that's the cool thing to do these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glacier Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 I dunno, Mr.E. I've been to that place, and, shit, if I can't zig-zag clip between bolts on two adjoining routes, I just don't feel comfy on lead. Bleh. Tell him to find his own damn playground to muck up. If my pansy-ass lead head can handle the mild runouts there, then most anyone should be able to sack up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 Chop all bolts on other people's routes and use the hangers for your own routes. That'll show em. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glassgowkiss Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 tell him to: 1. take a long walk on a short plank 2. start training 3.suck it up biatch many, many routes have a very long section between the bolts even in places like france. a space of 3-4 m between the bolts is a norm in most of the places i climbed in europe. typical example of over-bolting is new halem, where you clip the next bolt while the last one is at your waste. i also have mixed feelings about retro-bolting old lines, like some stuff at index, even though it was done by FA person (greg). in any case, that's just my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lepton Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 Maybe I'm from another era, but doesn't "sport route" mean there should be some "sport"? I don't go hunting by tying the bunny to the ground spread eagle and firing away point blank, so why would I expect the first ascentionist of a route to provide hand rails and and a hoist? Folks, this is rock climbing. It is SUPPOSED to have an element of fear. If you need to get in some safe laps up the rock, then stay in the gym. If you want to challenge yourself to take on not only the difficulty of the rock but the added difficulty of controlling your fear, then get out on the crag and do these bold albiet safe routes. I have a nice used set of golf clubs for anyone that isn't up to the challenge... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexual_chocolate Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 (edited) i also have mixed feelings about retro-bolting old lines, like some stuff at index, even though it was done by FA person (greg). in any case, that's just my opinion. Collum's retrobolting on routes like Cunning Stunt and Angora Grotto are plain silly. Cunning Stunt is one of my faves at Index as a trad line, and I'm glad it got chopped. He seemed to be motivated by personal convenience above all? And his plastic add-on east of the hills? Glad that got removed by someone who could climb oh say V7 or V8. But hell, hard for me to get too worked up about bolts and plastic with everything else going on in the world! As far as bolt-spacing goes: be honest with yourself. What are your motivations? Are you truly intrigued with the lines? Do you objectively think the lines are safe (if that is your intention)? Are you rap-bolting and tr rehearsing? If you're just putting up standard sport-lines, I think you have a bit of a responsibility for making them safe. If you're following a more subjective internal vision, then I suppose others will see what kind of vision you have! (I'm assuming the area in question is the exfoliating schist near Leavenworth, with the above-mentioned plastic hold (now called Heart Transplant, 13a-ish). Edited November 23, 2004 by sexual_chocolate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
specialed Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 Maybe I'm from another era, but doesn't "sport route" mean there should be some "sport"? I don't go hunting by tying the bunny to the ground spread eagle and firing away point blank, so why would I expect the first ascentionist of a route to provide hand rails and and a hoist? Folks, this is rock climbing. It is SUPPOSED to have an element of fear. If you need to get in some safe laps up the rock, then stay in the gym. If you want to challenge yourself to take on not only the difficulty of the rock but the added difficulty of controlling your fear, then get out on the crag and do these bold albiet safe routes. I have a nice used set of golf clubs for anyone that isn't up to the challenge... You hunt bunnies? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.